Episode 6
Ep.06 (GDL) Ozzie Smith: The "Wizard" on Freedom, Flow, and the Game Beyond Baseball
Hall of Famer Ozzie “The Wizard” Smith joins Jeff to talk about discovering golf after baseball, what “freedom” and “flow” really mean, and how the lessons from a life in baseball still drive him on the course.
Ozzie Smith is a Hall of Fame shortstop, St. Louis icon, and—since 1996—a full-blown golf nut. In this episode, Ozzie shares how he fell for the game after retirement, why his very first ceremonial tee shot at Whitey Herzog’s event went “right down the middle,” and what golf gives him that baseball no longer could: an honest challenge and a place to compete.
We dig into the athlete-to-golfer crossover: rhythm, timing, and the true meaning of “release” for a baseball player learning to keep the ball in play (“aim it at the second baseman”). Ozzie explains why nothing replaces repetitions—“it’s not until you’ve hit three, four thousand balls that it starts to make sense”—and how playing “totally free” fueled both his defensive wizardry and his love of golf. He also talks creativity on double plays, learning to fall and move like an acrobat as a kid, and why improvisation kept him healthy for 19 seasons.
Beyond the swing, Ozzie opens up about purpose and community. As president of Gateway PGA REACH, he’s helping kids and veterans access the game—and the business of golf—with a vision to build a nine-hole, multi-recreation facility in St. Louis. If you want a masterclass in staying competitive, staying humble, and keeping the joy, this one hits home.
Links & Mentions:
- Ozzie’s charity & event info: ozzysmithgolf.com
- Gateway PGA REACH: pgareachgateway.org
- Jeff & JB intro topics: 100-Hole Hike for Youth on Course, Jeff’s 36×13 Challenge for Folds of Honor, JB’s speed training with The Stack System
Show Partners:
- 1st Phorm — premium nutrition for golfers who play strong and live stronger.
- 18STRONG.com — programs & community to help you Play More Golf. Live More Life.
Transcript
The Golf Don't Live podcast is proudly brought to you by our friends over at first form.
Speaker B:Different paths, different stories.
Speaker C:This, this, this game tells all.
Speaker B:Gol don't live.
Speaker A:What's up, guys?
Speaker A:Welcome to Golf Don't Lie, a show where we bring on a wide variety of guests who, just like the rest of us, are connected by this crazy game.
Speaker A:Golf has a way of revealing who we are and teaching us lessons that we didn't even know that we needed and connecting us through stories that go far be the course.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Jeff Pelizaro.
Speaker A:I'm joined by my buddy, Justin Bryant.
Speaker C:Jb.
Speaker A:What's going on, buddy?
Speaker B:Jeff, not much, man.
Speaker B:Ready, Ready for another great episode?
Speaker A:Yeah, we've had some good ones.
Speaker A:We've had some great guests.
Speaker A:It's been fun.
Speaker C:It has.
Speaker B:We've.
Speaker B:We've secured kind of a variety of people, but I feel like this one from, from.
Speaker B:For us being from St. Louis, kind of hits hits home.
Speaker A:Yeah, we've got Ozzy the Wizard Smith.
Speaker A:Really like a local legend, a guy that I know I looked up to growing up.
Speaker A:I was not a stellar baseball player, played up through eighth grade.
Speaker A:But, you know, everybody loved Ozzy here in St. Louis.
Speaker A:He was just an icon, still is an icon around the St. Louis area.
Speaker A:Have you ever played with him or had a chance to connect with him?
Speaker B:I've never played with him.
Speaker B:I think he's play.
Speaker B:He's a.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker B:I. I've kind of seen him, you know, around golf in St. Louis, and as I remember, he's a very quick golfer, very, you know, very fast out there, you know, translates to his.
Speaker B:His baseball game.
Speaker B:But I haven't had the chance to play with him.
Speaker B:But I've run.
Speaker B:Run into him a couple times.
Speaker B:I think the last time was at the PGA show last January.
Speaker B:We were going down there and I'm in the southwest line and I'm like, wait, Ozzy.
Speaker B:Ozzy's on our flight and chatted with him briefly and he was going, I think on a.
Speaker B:Just a, you know, boys golf trip and maybe one of the nicest, you know, people you ever meet and just down to talk golf anytime.
Speaker A:That's what everybody has said.
Speaker A:That when I told him I had a chance to interview him, is that he will stop.
Speaker A:He'll chat with you, he'll answer any questions, he'll take pictures with you.
Speaker A:And he was so much fun to chat with.
Speaker A:I wish I had more time.
Speaker A:I could have sat and chatted with him for so long, asking more questions about his history with Cardinals.
Speaker A:He talked about coming over to the Cardinals and some of the early career stories, him and Whitey.
Speaker A:And then obviously we talked about him getting into the game of golf and comparisons between golf and baseball and all the things that he did to kind of separate himself from the other baseball players.
Speaker A:You know, what were the things that he did training wise or how did he stay injury free?
Speaker A:It was really cool to just hear him and you could see him light up when he talked about his days of playing.
Speaker A:And the one thing that I really encourage people to hear when, when they're listening to the show is he kept talking about, he kept saying the word free.
Speaker A:He felt really free out there.
Speaker A:And it's such a great link to being out on the golf course and how so many times I know for myself that's a piece that I'm missing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Is getting nervous and overthinking and not playing with that freedom.
Speaker A:And he said that that was the one thing that really was like the big, the big part of his career.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, he played, I feel like like a kid out there.
Speaker B:And I didn't get to see him as I think he, his career kind of like ended when I was like maybe seven or eight.
Speaker B:But like, I distinctly remember.
Speaker B:I mean, how can you forget him, like running on the field and doing a backflip?
Speaker B:I mean, who else does that, you know?
Speaker B:And so like, as a kid, I remember that and, and seeing the highlights of him turning double plays, I'm like, my boys who are now 7, 7 and 8, like, know who he is.
Speaker B:So I mean, he's, he's an icon.
Speaker A:I would imagine that most people listening to this have some idea who Ozzy is.
Speaker A:Obviously we're St. Louis guys, so he is, we grew up with him.
Speaker A:If you don't go look up some Ozzy Smith highlights and you're going to be just kind of blown away at the athleticism of this guy and, and then apparently he didn't really play any golf until later in the career.
Speaker A:And I hear he's a pretty good stick.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's, you know, I've seen him hit balls and he's an, he just looks like an athlete out there.
Speaker B:I, you know, it's, it's.
Speaker B:There's some athletes that don't translate quite as pretty, I would say, to the, the golf course, but I think baseball does a pretty good job of.
Speaker B:There's some pretty good looking swings there.
Speaker B:Speaking of which, you've, you've had quite a few swings taken this week.
Speaker A:Yes, I think over 300 swings on Tuesday it was that including putts.
Speaker A:But yeah, we did the 100 hole hike for youth on course.
Speaker A:This is our second year doing it.
Speaker A:We went over to family golf and Adam Betts and the guys over there hosted us over there.
Speaker A:Kurt Rowie from the Metropolitan Amateur Golf association, our good buddy, helped set the thing up.
Speaker A:We've done two years in a row now.
Speaker A:I think we doubled the amount of money raised this year compared to last year.
Speaker A:We raised over $15,000 and we played a hundred holes.
Speaker A:Family golf has a nine hole par three course and we played a hundred holes.
Speaker A:It took us, I think we started at 8 and our group ended at 3:30.
Speaker A:So, you know, it took us a good amount of time.
Speaker A:We did get lapped by the family golf guys in one of our groups, but we just kind of took our time and had so much fun.
Speaker A:Great little course.
Speaker A:It's pretty flat, thankfully it's not a ton of hills.
Speaker A:But we did, we carried, we hoofed it and just had a great time.
Speaker A:Did a lot of social media stuff on, trying to get some donations and so you can go to 18 strong Jeff or 18 strong and check out some of the stuff we did showcasing the, the hundred hole hike.
Speaker A:But it was awesome.
Speaker B:It was cool to follow.
Speaker B:I was jealous.
Speaker B:I really wanted to make it work.
Speaker B:I just couldn't, couldn't make it work.
Speaker B:So hopefully next year I can join in on that because that just looks like pretty good time.
Speaker B:What was the, what was the highlight of just the experience?
Speaker B:I know you've done it twice now or was it a shot or just kind of the, you know, where are you mentally?
Speaker B:I guess 100 holes.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, there wasn't a shot that was like the highlight.
Speaker A:I, I can't say that had, you know, had a few birdies.
Speaker A:Felt like I hit the ball pretty well.
Speaker A:Adam Betts was 37 under par through a hundred holes, which is five better than he was last year, which is pretty sick.
Speaker A:So it was kind of fun to just kind of look back and see some of those guys just throwing darts.
Speaker A:But the highlight is, is really just being able to go spend the time with my cousin Ryan.
Speaker A:We played the whole thing together.
Speaker A:We played with a guy named Tom Milford from our Friday morning group.
Speaker A:And then we switched it up a little bit and we played with big cat Joe Katke and it was just really cool.
Speaker A:And then we went and sat in family golf, had a beer afterwards and just kind of kicked it with the family golf guys.
Speaker A:Talked about some of the stories from out there, but also just some other St. Louis golf stuff.
Speaker A:And we just had such a good time.
Speaker A:So it's just the camaraderie that made the best as far as the swings.
Speaker A:It's almost like deja vu, you know, it's like, it was kind of funny because like the second time around we're like, oh, we only have to do this nine more times.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's wild.
Speaker B:Wild.
Speaker B:What was like the.
Speaker B:Did you anyone track like the whoop or steps?
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:I had my Strava going on my Garmin and it was close to 13 miles that we walked.
Speaker A:I think I had like 25,000 steps at the end of the night.
Speaker A:I had close to 30,000 steps.
Speaker A:I don't know what like calories or anything like that.
Speaker A:And there was pretty much zero elevation change though.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a fun nine hole course, but it's definitely favorable in terms of the elevation.
Speaker A:Yeah, nice and flat, but gave me, it gave me an idea of what it's going to take to, to walk about 13 miles to play some golf because I've got another little challenge that we're working our way towards.
Speaker B:That's going to be your day 1 of 10 when you're doing that.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Tell me about how that's going and what you're kind of trying to do.
Speaker B:For those that haven't seen it yet on social.
Speaker A:So yeah, if you haven't seen it on social media, go check out my personal page and I feed some of it over to the 18 strong page.
Speaker A:But at 18 strong Jeff on Instagram and you'll hear about this in not this episode, but the next episode when we talk with Lieutenant Colonel Dan Rooney.
Speaker A:But I kicked around an idea with him and really kicked it around with my wife.
Speaker A:Is kind of a bigger deal that if we can get a hundred thousand followers to spread the word on this thing.
Speaker A:And I'm going to do that by doing 100 days of content on social media.
Speaker A:So need your help on that too, knowing your social media background.
Speaker A:But if we can get 100,000 followers, we're going to try to raise $100,000 for Folds of Honor by me walking 36 holes for 13 days straight.
Speaker B:Brutal.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:I think I got, I'm not committing to all of those, but I definitely got to get in there for one of the 18 or 36.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I figured I've already got a couple people like a Jim Holt Grieve said he he's going to come Play with me, Lieutenant Colonel.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker A:Lieutenant Colonel Dan said that we can finish it up at the Patriot club for the 36.
Speaker A:He'll play with me that final 36.
Speaker A:So now we just got to get the numbers, we got to get this thing rolling.
Speaker A:But I think that the hardest part is going to be creating the content and sticking with it and the training and then the raising the money and, you know, there's so many pieces to it.
Speaker A:But I'm up for the challenge for several reasons.
Speaker A:First of all, it's just an incredible cause, but also, I think it really is a personal challenge to me to be able to stick to something for a hundred days, fitness wise, content wise.
Speaker A:And it is really kind of what we talk about in the 18 strong community is being able to commit to something and stick to it.
Speaker A:It doesn't have to be big and flashy, but it's doing the thing over and over and over again.
Speaker A:And so there's so.
Speaker A:On so many levels, I'm very excited about this and petrified at the same, terrified at the same, at the same moment.
Speaker B:So it's going to be, it's going to be awesome.
Speaker B:So if you, if you're not following Jeff, follow him.
Speaker B:If you are following him, tell a friend to follow him.
Speaker B:Come on, help us, help us get Jeff to that 100k mark so we can, we can embark on this journey with him here.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, if anything, just to see me either fall in my face or to just suffer through this, I'm going to be doing a lot of videos on what I'm doing to train for it and any content that you guys want me to create as far as, you know, anything related to your own personal golf games too, fitness wise.
Speaker A:Hopefully we'll get maybe some content from our boy JB here on some of the actual golf stuff to be able to help us even with, you know, how to practice with the rapsodo and just some different ideas there.
Speaker A:But yeah, yeah, it's going to be a fun, fun journey and we're going to see where we go.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:We'll see where we are after 100 days.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:Yeah, we got to get you dialed.
Speaker B:You got the spot in the gym, gonna get the reps set up there because you gotta get the swing, the swing ready.
Speaker B:You gotta train the swing, you gotta get the body, the mind, swing.
Speaker A:All of it.
Speaker B:All, all in sync, all of it.
Speaker A:All right, talk to me about your goals before we get into Ozzy.
Speaker A:What, what's going on with you?
Speaker A:I know the, the season's wrapping up a little bit.
Speaker A:You had some golf this past week and you've got what, one more event?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we got the USGA 4 ball next week at Forest Hills.
Speaker B:I think this is only the second time I've tried it.
Speaker B:It's a really cool event added onto the schedule and playing out of Forest Hills.
Speaker B:Unfortunately not going to get a practice run in ahead of time.
Speaker B:Forest Hills can be a little tricky, but it's gonna be really fun.
Speaker B:Just a, just a really cool event and fun and hopefully we can, we can make some birdies and eagles.
Speaker B:My teammates, Brian Holt House, a good, good friend of mine, good player.
Speaker B:And so we're gonna, we're gonna give it our best shot and see what we can do.
Speaker B:And then I was telling you I've kind of begun in the year.
Speaker B:I, I'm very goal oriented, Jeff.
Speaker B:Like I gotta write something down if and, and stick to it.
Speaker B:And one to do was just see 180 ball speed once.
Speaker B:180 ball speed once.
Speaker B:So I started the year off, I would say pretty strong and then kind of during the summer when it was kind of tournament play, I just didn't, didn't, you know, train quite as much in terms of the speed and, but still kind of would test it every once in a while at the office and on the range.
Speaker B:And kind of once competitive season goes on, I want to kick it up again.
Speaker B:And I'm doing it because I'm not chasing the long drive, but I think kind of as you said, it's just kind of putting a goal forward, making sure I'm staying disciplined in that.
Speaker B:And you know, I'm 37 now and would love to gain speed, but I really want to make sure I maintain it because I'm just not playing as playing golf as much and I still want to perform at a high level and distance is just such a big advantage when we, when you play golf.
Speaker B:So that's, that's kind of the, the year end goal that I'm pushing for.
Speaker B:It's not as ambitious as, as what you got going on, but I'm currently stuck at 175 miles an hour.
Speaker B:So I got five mile an hour to go, which seems daunting.
Speaker B:I think the bonus is I'm kind of maxing out the club speed at I think 121 or 122 has been the highest.
Speaker B:So it's possible.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:With the smash factor already, we're already there with a, with a solid strike, so I feel confident in that regard.
Speaker B:But I think it's going to require some, some, some good work in the gym, some rest and I want to make a final push here.
Speaker A:So I was going to ask what's, what's the plan?
Speaker A:What's the missing piece right now?
Speaker A:What have you been doing already?
Speaker B:Yeah, so it's, you know, for those, I think speed training, like just training in general.
Speaker B:You know, like I always say, like when my dad told me the game it was like swing 80% and that was good advice for when they were, you know, he was growing up because the equipment was different.
Speaker B:But now the equipment's so good, you know, in the sweet spot.
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker B:It's, it's swinging faster and you know, really I've just been lucky enough to, to be able to talk to a bunch of people that are way smarter than me.
Speaker B:Dr. Sasha McKenzie, who has kind of developed the stack system and become close with kind of those stack guys and they've put an awesome kind of plan together.
Speaker B:So that's kind of the, the speed training system I'm going to use.
Speaker B:There's a lot of other good systems out there.
Speaker B:Super speed ripsticks.
Speaker B:There's a couple other that I'm sure I'm missing that I know you've, you've used Jeff, but so I'm going to do that with the stack get back in their program.
Speaker B:It's three days a week.
Speaker B:It walks you through the app.
Speaker B:I'm going to get dialed that way and then I'm probably going to have to call you, call you in for, for some, some help to push us across the finish line.
Speaker B:But I feel good.
Speaker B:I feel good.
Speaker B:And this isn't like again, anyone listening?
Speaker B:This isn't going to be like my on course swing, but it's nice to one have that extra gear.
Speaker B:And kind of the thought process is, you know, if you can increase your max swing speed, then if I am swinging, let's just say 80, 90%, I'm actually swinging faster than I was before.
Speaker B:So my normal kind of, I would say gamer swing Speed currently is 114.
Speaker B:That's kind of what I would swing when I'm playing, you know, tournaments.
Speaker B:Ball speeds probably 167.
Speaker B:And then I'd say right now if I'm playing it and I really have to get to a par 5 and 2 or it's a drivable par 4 with not as much.
Speaker B: I'll, I'll crank it up to: Speaker B:And, you know, now to.
Speaker B:To be able to cruise at 114 is awesome.
Speaker B:I would love to cruise at 117 and then be able to push it into the 120s if I.
Speaker B:If I have to.
Speaker B:But yeah, just trying to play golf better for a longer part of my life.
Speaker B:So that's what this is all about, right, Jeff?
Speaker A:That's what this is all about.
Speaker A:And as you know, I've got some ideas for us.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker A:There's definitely, you know, a strength component to.
Speaker A:To tie into that.
Speaker A:And I remember having Marty Jerkson on.
Speaker B:You know, Marty's awesome.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Of the stack.
Speaker A:As I'm staring at my stack right there, that's part.
Speaker A:Going to be part of my playing this.
Speaker A:This next hundred days as well.
Speaker B:Maybe we need to do.
Speaker B:We need a little competition, see who can gain, like, the biggest percentage of speed or something.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker B:I like that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then we can measure it on the rap soda, right?
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, you heard it here.
Speaker A:We're going to have a little bit.
Speaker A:Little competition.
Speaker A:But that is, you know, a big piece for you, I think, is.
Speaker A:Is getting in and doing some of the strength stuff, some of the mobility stuff, and tie that in with the speed training.
Speaker A:And that's really the.
Speaker A:The magic recipe, right?
Speaker A:I mean, we know that you don't need to do that much for your swing.
Speaker A:Your swing is dialed in.
Speaker A:It's now, okay, let's improve, you know, the amount of force that you can put through the body.
Speaker A:You're already working on the speed component of it with the.
Speaker A:With the stack system.
Speaker A:And then we can work on some other speed components, too.
Speaker A:Med balls, some little jumps, things like that.
Speaker A:But making sure the body's moving well and first and foremost, staying healthy, right?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:It's amazing, like, how much just kind of being around some of these people, you know, people talking about the force and pushing into the ground.
Speaker B:Like it's, you know, there's so much good science now where you don't have to guess how to gain speed.
Speaker B:It's like there's actually a recipe.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:Can you.
Speaker B:You know, obviously you want to make sure you're in a.
Speaker B:Your body's in a spot to be able to do this and not hurt yourself, but it's really just kind of putting in.
Speaker B:Putting in the work, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right, man, let's get it done.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:All right, let's get into our interview here with our buddy Ozzie Smith, and then you and I are going to catch up on the backside of this after we get a chance to listen and talk about some of the takeaways.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Let's get to the Wizard.
Speaker A:Let's do it.
Speaker A:Ozzie Smith, welcome to Golf Don't Lie.
Speaker A:And thank you for coming on.
Speaker C:Thank you, Jeff.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:This is such a surreal moment for me as a young St. Louis and growing up watching the St. Louis Cardinals.
Speaker A:One of my earliest memories is a party that my parents had at their house watching the 82 World Series.
Speaker A:And now here I am talking to you and of all things about golf.
Speaker A:This is going to be incredible.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's amazing and how things in.
Speaker A:Life change, isn't it?
Speaker A:So when did you actually pick up the game?
Speaker A:Did you play during your.
Speaker A:Your baseball career?
Speaker C:No, I never played golf.
Speaker C:I grew up in Southern California and never picked up a golf club.
Speaker C:Actually.
Speaker C:It was always baseball, basketball, not much football, but ran a little track and stuff.
Speaker C: it wasn't until I retired in: Speaker C:And I told him at that particular time, I said, you know, I've never played golf, you know, so I. I'd have no idea.
Speaker C:He said, well, I tell you what, why don't you come out and a day early and hit some balls and if you don't like it, then we won't force it.
Speaker C:So I went out and I.
Speaker C:He gave me the basics of, you know, hitting a ball that's sitting still.
Speaker C:And of course, when you spend your whole career spinning a ball, hitting a ball that's moving, how hard can it be?
Speaker C:You know, it's sitting there, you know, it's just hit me.
Speaker C:And I find, Jeff, that is one.
Speaker A:Of the toughest things that I've ever.
Speaker C:Had to do because as a baseball player, the pitcher, you know, is the one that gets you into.
Speaker C:It's what gets everything started, you know, finding that rhythm and that timing.
Speaker C:But in golf, you know, you gotta find that rhythm and timing yourself.
Speaker C:You always hear Tiger talk about rhythm and finding that together and being able to get everything together.
Speaker C:And golf is one of the most challenging things that I've ever had to do, you know, because getting Square as consistently as you possibly can is one of the toughest things in the world to do.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:I guess you can say that it's easier when you do it when you're young, but it's tougher when you're older and especially when you've done another sport, as I had done, and stuff.
Speaker C:But that's what makes the game so great for people like myself.
Speaker C:And I think that's the reason that we all gravitate to it.
Speaker C:We gravitate to it because it presents a real challenge, while at the same time it fills a competitive void that you have in your life once you retire from the sport.
Speaker C: And, you know,: Speaker A:That's ridiculous.
Speaker A:First of all, take me to that moment, because I think we've all experienced the situation where we're on the tee box.
Speaker A:We might even just have one group waiting behind us.
Speaker A:But here you're sitting at a charity event, you've never played the game before, and you're hitting this ceremonial tee shot.
Speaker A:You took a lesson, maybe the day before.
Speaker A:What was that like?
Speaker A:And compare that to standing at the plate at the World Series.
Speaker C:Well, as you can imagine, you know, when you're standing at the, the.
Speaker C:The plate, because you've done.
Speaker C:At the plate, because you've done it so much of your life, you're able to shut all those things out and concentrate on the picture.
Speaker C:You know, it's just you and the picture you're dealing with.
Speaker C:But when you're standing there and you got a group of people standing around, first thing that comes to mind is don't kill anybody.
Speaker C:Don't hook it.
Speaker C:You know, don't, don't push it.
Speaker C:Don't.
Speaker C:Don't hurt anybody.
Speaker C:You just make sure you hit the ball.
Speaker C:You get it airborne, first of all, and, and hopefully it goes straight.
Speaker C:And, you know, it's a, it's a.
Speaker C:It's a great feeling of accomplishment once you reach a point to where, you know, when you have a chance to play in some of these tournaments, you're not going to kill somebody.
Speaker C:And I can remember playing in a tournament early on, and this is before I really knew how to.
Speaker C:How to play, and I said, well, I shank the ball off, there was a par 3, and I shaked it, and I could.
Speaker C:I heard one of the guys I was playing, well, Jesus Christ, he's going to kill somebody.
Speaker C:So, you know, I always remember that, and that sticks out, you know, because that's the one thing that you don't want to be known for is a hitting, a hitting, a spectator, you know.
Speaker C:So I've always.
Speaker C:I've always guarded against that.
Speaker A:And I think that, that, that is.
Speaker C:Probably more pressure than then actually the execution of it yourself is making sure that you, you.
Speaker C:You get it square enough or you hit it in an area where it doesn't harm anyone.
Speaker A:That's one of the things about this game that I think is so crazy.
Speaker A:You mentioned that playing baseball, you're constantly reacting to the pitcher, you're reacting to the ball, you're reacting on the field, to the ball coming at you.
Speaker A:But golf, it's just sitting still and then standing at the plate over the ceremonial tee shot that you hadn't had.
Speaker A:Those repetitions, do you feel like in.
Speaker A:In baseball, especially when you're playing defensively or when you're at the plate and you've got, you know, so much pressure on you, is it because of the repetitions and I guess my question is a little bit more talent versus hard work, or is it simply because of the repetitions put in?
Speaker C:It's repetitions put in.
Speaker C:And I tell people, you know, it's not until after you've hit three, four thousand balls, and maybe even more than that that it even really starts to make sen you.
Speaker C:You know, the goal is always to be more square than open or more square than clothes, and getting there consistently and figuring out how you're going to get.
Speaker C:Get that degree of consistency.
Speaker C:And so it takes a lot of repetitions.
Speaker C:I think that's part of.
Speaker C:Of what makes the game, for me, anyway, special because I love the process.
Speaker C:You know, I like digging it out of the dirt.
Speaker C:People say, well, you take lessons, as I mentioned to you, Mike Murphy, who's an old pro, he and I talk baseball and golf all the time.
Speaker C:And it's learning to.
Speaker C:What I've tried to do is incorporate the things that came pretty naturally for me from an athletic standpoint, try and put those things together, see how it can work together.
Speaker C:And hand and eye coordination, of course, has a lot to do with it.
Speaker C:If you have good hand and eye coordination, which most baseball players do, then that makes it a little bit easier.
Speaker C:Doesn't make it easy, but it makes it a little bit easier to deal with, you know, because you understand, you have an understanding of what it means to get square for Me instance, for me, you know, one of the things that we talked about right away was, you know, release.
Speaker C:We understand release.
Speaker C:But if you tell a baseball player, release it without.
Speaker C:Without explanation, you know, where that ball's going, that ball's going, you're going to hook.
Speaker C:He's going to hook it, you know, so you have to understand release.
Speaker C:And where you release it, if you say to a baseball player, release it at the second basement.
Speaker C:Now, that makes a whole.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:It's a whole different ball game now, you know, because now he understands how to stay inside.
Speaker C:And if you're releasing it out here, instead of releasing it over here, you know, you can keep that ball in play.
Speaker C:And so in my talking to people who come to the game, you know, just learning the game, especially if you're a baseball player, if there was one thing that I would say to them is learning where release is, because they understand that lingo.
Speaker C:Release.
Speaker C:If I'm going to release it, I got to release it toward the second baseman, and if I release it toward the second baseman, then, you know, there's a good chance that ball's gonna stay in play.
Speaker A:That's a great point that you make, because I've seen so many different athletes from different sports, and you know that they are incredible at whatever their sport may be.
Speaker A:But, you know, you look at hockey players, and a lot of them, they transition over to hockey, over to golf so well.
Speaker A:But you can kind of pick out a hockey player by a swing, right?
Speaker A:Like, you see that one, and then you watch maybe somebody like a LeBron James swing a golf club, and.
Speaker A:And you can tell, like, it's.
Speaker A:It's a totally different move.
Speaker A:It's a totally different feeling.
Speaker A:But, you know, he's super athletic, right?
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:I think it's all about.
Speaker C:It's all about explaining to them in terms that they're familiar with, you know, and for baseball players, well, anything with.
Speaker C:As far as a racket is concerned, from a baseball standpoint, we understand what release is, you know, how.
Speaker C:How to release it.
Speaker C:And so now it just becomes a.
Speaker C:It just becomes a way of.
Speaker C:Of figuring out, you know, where.
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker C:Where you're going to get the most consistency at.
Speaker C:At releasing that, releasing the club.
Speaker A:I'd be doing myself and the audience a disservice if I didn't go a little bit into the.
Speaker A:To your history of your baseball career and especially as a.
Speaker A:As a St. Louis, and I realized that I didn't know a whole lot about your upbringing before you came to the Cardinals.
Speaker A:So first of all, can you just take us through a little bit of you coming up into baseball?
Speaker A:When did you know that you were going to do something special in the game or at least go to that higher level?
Speaker C:Well, you know, I don't know if you ever really know, you know, I grew up in Southern California and I went to high school.
Speaker C:I played high school baseball with Eddie Murray.
Speaker C:And when you play with a.
Speaker C:One of the greatest switch hitters of all time, when they come to scout, they don't come to scout 150 pound shortstop.
Speaker C:So I got caught up into that and I had to take a different route to the big leagues.
Speaker C: Eddie got drafted in: Speaker C:For me, I had to go to a little small school in Central California where I walked onto the baseball program.
Speaker C:As I mentioned, I played a lot of basketball.
Speaker C:Eddie and I played a lot more basketball than we did baseball in high school.
Speaker C:And upon walking onto that program at San Luis Obispo, which is halfway between LA and in San Francisco in Central California, there were plenty of times where, you know, I was homesick.
Speaker C:I was four hours away from home.
Speaker C:And I can remember calling back and telling my mom, I don't think this is working out.
Speaker C:Things weren't going as fast as I would have liked to have gone.
Speaker C:And it didn't appear that I was ever going to get that opportunity.
Speaker C:And so through that discouragement, she called, she called my high school coach.
Speaker C:And I was very lucky in that I had people around me who were all preaching the same message.
Speaker C:That same message was work hard, be the very best that you can be day in and day out.
Speaker C:Don't ever give up on your dream, whatever that dream is, you know, allow yourself to, to be the best that you can be with what you were given.
Speaker C:And so remembering that, my high school coach called me up and he told me, he said, hey, look, you're in the best place for you.
Speaker C:You're not going anywhere.
Speaker C:You're going to stay right there and you're going to weather the storm.
Speaker C:Well, a couple days later, Jeff, the varsity, I was playing JV at the time, and the varsity shortstop got hurt and I stepped into that role and I never looked back because I wanted to make sure that I kept myself in a position to be able to step through that window of opportunity when it presented itself.
Speaker C:And I did.
Speaker C:And as, as things continued to progress for me, we were sent out after our season was over.
Speaker C:We were Sent out to places to play, to continue to get better.
Speaker C:And the place that I was sent to was Clarinda, Iowa.
Speaker C:Clarinda, Iowa, is a little small town about an hour and a half from Omaha.
Speaker C:And it was through that program there that, you know, I got my first shot at playing professionally.
Speaker C: I got drafted in: Speaker C:The Detroit Tigers drafted me in the, in the eighth round.
Speaker C:And at this particular time, you know, I was a junior.
Speaker C:And many, if you're going to get drafted, then that's when you have your most bargaining power, because not many seniors get drafted.
Speaker C:And so getting drafted by the Detroit Tigers in the eighth round, they offered me $8,500.
Speaker C:And I always tell this story to kids because kids think that we're all bonus babies.
Speaker C:Everybody's not a bonus baby.
Speaker C:And no success comes without some blood, sweat and tears.
Speaker C:And so getting drafted in the eighth round, they offered me $8,500.
Speaker C:And at the particular time, I felt that if they didn't give me at least $10,000, they weren't going to take a very good look at me.
Speaker C:So in my infinite wisdom, I went back to them and I said, if you guys give me another fifteen hundred dollars.
Speaker C:Now, keep in mind, they had drafted Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker, and the year before they had drafted Jack Morris.
Speaker C:So they had a bus ticket for me down to Lakeland, Florida, where the Detroit Tigers train.
Speaker C: l, after I asked them for the: Speaker C:So I promised my mom that I was going to get my education.
Speaker C:So I went back to school in hopes of getting drafted again my senior year, which I did by the San Diego Padres.
Speaker C:I got drafted in the fourth round.
Speaker C: You know, after, after: Speaker C:At least people know that I'm here.
Speaker C:I got drafted in the fourth round, and being the good businessman that I am, Jeff, I signed for $5,000 and a bus ticket to Walla Walla, Washington, where I started my professional career.
Speaker A:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker A:And then you went on to the Padres.
Speaker A:How long were you with the Padres again?
Speaker C:I was with the Padres for four seasons.
Speaker C:I played with Dave Linfield, Gaylord Perry, Raleigh Fingers, Gene Tennis.
Speaker C:You know, some, some names.
Speaker C:Gene Tennis and Raleigh Fingers, of course, played on those three back to, back to back Oakland A teams, you know, so we had that experience, but we certainly did not have the chemistry and the rest and the pitching that would allow us to do that.
Speaker C:And at the time I wasn't.
Speaker C:Wasn't a great offensive player, and I was one of those guys that they say is all.
Speaker C: he Cardinals in The winter of: Speaker C:And anytime you get traded for a player like that, you know, there are always high expectations.
Speaker C:And I tease a lot of people here now, you know, that come up to me and say, you know, you.
Speaker C:You know, we.
Speaker C:It was great when you came over here.
Speaker C:I say, you're probably one of those people that when they.
Speaker C:When they said that, that they had traded Gary Templeton for Ozzie Smith, who said, who and what in the world would we trade Gary Templeton to the Ford?
Speaker C:But the one thing that I.
Speaker C:That I think that I did that, and Whitey helped me with this, he says, you know, all I want you to do is be yourself.
Speaker C:I didn't come here trying to be something that I wasn't.
Speaker C:I knew I had a unique talent and a unique skill set, and I just worked hard at being the very best that I could be at playing the position with total freedom.
Speaker C:I didn't have any restrictions on me with the way that I played.
Speaker C:I didn't have to play a certain way, Jeff, to be able to make a play.
Speaker C:My job as a defensive player was to cover.
Speaker C:Cover the mistakes that my pitcher might make.
Speaker C:You know, we always have scouting reports and stuff, and so, you know, what area if a guy, if a pitcher pitches to the scouters report, you know, an area of which a guy's more apt to hit the ball.
Speaker C:It wasn't so much that play, because that should be your routine play.
Speaker C:It was about being able to cover that mistake that he may have made with men in scoring position and still being able to get it out.
Speaker C:That became very, very important to.
Speaker C:In the whole scheme of things for me as a defensive player.
Speaker C:And so I prided myself on being able to make a play without necessarily being in one position.
Speaker A:And we'll be right back.
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Speaker A:Is there anything that you did specifically?
Speaker A:Because, I mean, from what I remember as a kid watching you, you just played different than everybody else that I remember.
Speaker A:I mean, your athleticism, it was like you were an acrobat out at shore.
Speaker A:Stop.
Speaker A:Was there anything in your upbringing or did you train a specific way or do certain things to really hone that and become one of the best defensive players ever?
Speaker C:Well, as kids, you know, we, we spent a lot of time outside, you know, and one of the things that, than I did from an athletic standpoint, I used to lay on the floor and throw the ball up to get the feel of the ball hitting the glove without seeing it.
Speaker C:I used to, we had a peaked roof, you know, and I used to throw the ball up on one side and think I was fast enough to run around to the other side and hopefully the gutter would slow it down enough to where I could, I could catch it.
Speaker C:And it was doing things like that that made me the player that I ultimately became.
Speaker C:You know, I know.
Speaker C:The question is, well, did you ever.
Speaker C:Did you ever get there to catch it?
Speaker C:No, I never got there.
Speaker C:But it was that type of determination that made me the player that I became.
Speaker C:And I, I also grew up across the street from where they had.
Speaker C:They built pallets across the street.
Speaker C:So we used to go over and tumble in the sawdust.
Speaker C:And as kids, it was always about a dare.
Speaker C:I dare you.
Speaker C:I bet you can't do this.
Speaker C:We used to, you remember those little chain link fence that had by 4ft tall that had this spikes on top, but you can't jump over that.
Speaker C:You'd be amazed at how high you can jump when you know that if you don't have insurance, it ain't gonna be pretty.
Speaker C:You'll probably get a whipping if you did try something like that and didn't make it.
Speaker C:So you know, those are the dares that we did as kids.
Speaker C:And then I used to go to the trampolines on Thursdays and they were trampolines that were in the, in the ground.
Speaker C:And that's really after going in tumbling in the sawdust.
Speaker C:On Thursdays we'd go to the trampolines.
Speaker C:And that's where I learned how to tumble, learn how to fall.
Speaker C:And it's really the way that I've kind of trained my, my kids at a young age to learn to jump and on the trampoline, which gives you coordination and teaches you how to fall.
Speaker C:It was doing those things that enhanced something that I already had pretty good hand and eye coordination and stuff.
Speaker C:And so that allowed me, when I started playing at the major league level, to just play with total freedom without having to worry about this or that.
Speaker C:And my managers gave me that freedom.
Speaker C:And what you saw was the way I felt when I, when I took the field.
Speaker C:You know, I, I played, there were, there were no restrictions on how I played.
Speaker C:And the thing for me was always people say, well, you're, you're out of position or you can't make a throw that way.
Speaker C:Well, the, the objective is to get it out.
Speaker C:So it didn't matter whether I was standing on my head up in the air.
Speaker C:I didn't restrict myself that way, you know, because a lot of times when you think about it, Jeff, people ask me, they said, well, you know, what plays do.
Speaker C:Did you like doing the most?
Speaker C:The double play, I think was, was one of my favorite plays because of its creativity.
Speaker C:The creativity or the, you had to be able to adjust to certain things.
Speaker C:And so as I, A lot of times what determined how a double play was turned depending on where the runner was.
Speaker C:A lot of times when the play developed, I didn't know exactly how I was going to do it.
Speaker C:My job was to avoid that guy coming down on me so he doesn't, he doesn't take me out.
Speaker C:And making sure that my second baseman doesn't get me in a position where a guy could take me out.
Speaker C:And that was our job as a second baseman and shortstop was to protect each other.
Speaker C:So, um, it was, it was, it was all of those things that, that I did that, that, that allowed me to play 19 years and not have any serious injury around there.
Speaker C:Because at the time, you know, today's, in today's world, they can't touch a guy at second base.
Speaker C:You know, it's easy.
Speaker C:But back then, you know, you had guys who were specialists at being able to take guys out, double play guys, and those guys were.
Speaker C:And you just kind of, you know, you just kind of protected yourself.
Speaker C:We, we protected each other in the middle there and, and stuff.
Speaker C:And I tell you, when you get big old 230, 240 pound guys coming down on you, you learn how to get out of the way.
Speaker C:So improvisation became a big part of, of what it was that I did.
Speaker C:And, and I guess you can call, I can call myself an improvisationalist.
Speaker A:Gosh, I can just remember some of those plays.
Speaker A:You flipping a ball behind your back or bare handing the ball and.
Speaker C:Well, it's all of those skills, the basketball and the baseball and all of those things kind of came together for me.
Speaker C:And, and like I say, you know, there were no restrictions to it.
Speaker C:And a lot of times when you talk about the one behind the back, when you got momentum going in one direction, it's real tough to transfer the ball and get it, you know, get it out and then kind of throw back behind you.
Speaker C:So it was actually an easier play to keep your momentum going and stuff, as long as the second baseman was aware that something like that was possible.
Speaker A:Ozzie, if you could, if you could throw one more double play, who's the second baseman you're choosing to do with?
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:There was so many second basemans.
Speaker C:I spent most of my time with Tommy Her.
Speaker C:Tommy her and I were pretty good.
Speaker C:1982, I think, was one of those magical years.
Speaker C:From a defensive standpoint, our defense was probably one of the best ever assembled.
Speaker C:I know that, you know, you don't hear a lot of talk about that.
Speaker C:You hear about dull play combination guys that stay together a long time.
Speaker C:But I think as far as efficiency and stuff is concerned, Tommy her and later Jose Okendo returned a lot of double plays.
Speaker C:And you know, we prided ourselves on being able to do that because you get your picture out of so many trouble, trouble spots by being able to turn that double play efficiently.
Speaker C:And that's what, that's what we were known for.
Speaker C:We were known for being able to catch it and throw it.
Speaker C:And in the 80s, you know, the Mets always had great pitching and always had great teams, but I think the one thing that they lacked was the ability to catch and throw the ball as consistently as we did and show over the long haul of 162 game schedule.
Speaker C:The teams that catch it and throw it the best are the teams that, that, that end up winning because it may take to the seventh game of the World Series.
Speaker C:But if there's something that you're lacking, you're not good at, at some point in time it's going to catch up with you.
Speaker C:And I think that that was one of the things that caught up with the Mets a lot.
Speaker C:They were great offensive team and, and stuff.
Speaker C:But a lot of times when it was late and you were able to keep the game close, it was the team that, that could catch it and throw it better that that ended up winning.
Speaker A:I know we're super short on time here, but I want to ask you about something that I think is super close to your heart and that's your time as president of the Gateway PGA Reach program.
Speaker A:I wanted to ask, you know, what got you involved there.
Speaker A:Can you give us a little idea of what great things you guys are doing over there?
Speaker C: w, once I took up the game in: Speaker C:And, and when I got involved in it, I realized that as a kid growing up in Southern California, that was something that I was never exposed to.
Speaker C:And golf being a multi billion dollar industry, I realized that this would be a great opportunity for some kids who may not have found themselves or kids who couldn't play baseball or couldn't play basketball or couldn't play football.
Speaker C:And we talk about the game of golf, but it's not just a game of golf.
Speaker C:It's the business of golf that's very, very important.
Speaker C:And one of the other pillars that we've now, we started with the kids and stuff, but now we've added veterans to it because people ask us, you know, what is it that you miss the most from the game?
Speaker C:And we find other ways we found golf, you know, so that, that's, that's the, the outlet that we have after we retire, that's fills that void.
Speaker C:But the one thing that you miss the most is the camaraderie.
Speaker C:It is the camaraderie.
Speaker C:It's the flight, it's the plane, the, the plane flights.
Speaker C:It's a bus rides, it's, it's all of that time spent with, with the guys that you end up spending more time with during the course of a season than you do with your family.
Speaker C:And it's, it's doubly rewarding when you can win with that group of guys too, you know.
Speaker C:So I was very fortunate that we had some great teams here that we were able to, to, to win with and, and stuff.
Speaker C:And that made it, that makes it even more special to, to be able to win.
Speaker C:And so now veterans who come back from war with PTSD and all of the problems that they deal with, they become shut ins.
Speaker C:And so this gives them the opportunity here again through the game of golf to be able to get back out and assimilate back into society.
Speaker C:And I've been very, very proud of that.
Speaker C:And my long range goal in getting involved in this thing was to one day build a multi recreational facility across the street from Herbert Hoover's Boys Club, who sits on the ground of old Sportsman's park, to build a nine hole multi recreational facility that would allow kids in the inner city to experience what the game of golf and the business of golf is all about.
Speaker C:You know, because it, you can go from agronomy to working in a, in, in the clubhouse or working on the, on the grounds and this.
Speaker C:So there's just a, a gamut of things that you can do that's associated with the game and you don't necessarily have to be the, in the game to be involved in the game and, and stuff.
Speaker C:And so, you know, hopefully later this year we're going to put some shovels in the ground.
Speaker C:We're still raising money to get that facility built and we've had a group of wonderful people who have worked behind the scenes, have been working behind the scenes.
Speaker C:I'm, I'm the face of it.
Speaker C:But there are people who are working every day at trying to make that dream come true for, not only for me, but for a lot of kids here in, here in St. Louis.
Speaker A:I love that vision.
Speaker A:Where can people go that are listening to the show if they feel like they want to donate, they want to participate, they want to help this vision?
Speaker C:Well, you can go to ozzysmithgolf.com or you can go PG reach gateway.com to see what it is that we're doing.
Speaker C: ry year from, well Night from: Speaker C:Our program this year is October 5 and 6.
Speaker C:On Sunday night we spend the night at the Ritz Carlton and I've had everyone from Hank Aaron to Jim Fury, O. Jackson.
Speaker C:I had Eric Dickerson and Marcus Allen together.
Speaker C:I had Cal Ripken and Andy Murray together.
Speaker C:Bob Gibson and Reggie Jackson because they did a book, 60ft 6 inches.
Speaker C:So I've had a gamut of people that have come and spent the evening with me where we just sit and talk, as you and I are talking now about how they've gotten to where, where they've gotten to in their lives and what it took.
Speaker C:And it's just a wonderful experience.
Speaker C:We have an auction and we give people an idea of what it is that we're doing.
Speaker C:And of course, it's all about helping kids who otherwise would not have the opportunity.
Speaker C:So that's what I'm doing, man.
Speaker C:I enjoy it.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker C:And we're, we raised a lot of money and I think we're, we're real helping some, some, some kids in the inner city.
Speaker A:I love that so much.
Speaker A:And to be honest, that's, that's what this show is about.
Speaker A:That's why we call it Golf Don't Lie, because it's, it's about what the game does for our lives.
Speaker A:It exposes a lot in us.
Speaker A:It exposes us to a lot.
Speaker A:The amazing opportunities, the people that you meet out there, the conversations you have, like this one.
Speaker A:One last thing to close up, because I, I have.
Speaker A:We have a very good mutual friend.
Speaker A:I gotta ask, the last time you played with Jim Holtgreave, did you outdrive him when you were at Cape Valley?
Speaker A:Rumor has it you may have.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Jim, you know, Jim is.
Speaker C:Don't, don't let Jim.
Speaker C:For you.
Speaker C:Jim can still play.
Speaker C:He's still, he can still hit it and he can put it.
Speaker C:And I try and learn as much from people like Jim as I possibly can.
Speaker C:Always give him a hard time.
Speaker C:But, you know, he's talking about the fact that being a baseball player, being able to drive, I just, I don't do it all the time because I know it probably hurt his feelings, but I just let him know that, hey, when I have to reach back, I can reach back and I could, I could put it out there, too.
Speaker A:Well, he sent me a couple pictures.
Speaker A:Sounds like you were on a flurry of birdies out of Caves Valley, so.
Speaker C:Yeah, I did.
Speaker C:I, I had a pretty good day out there at Caves Valley, and thanks to him for, for taking me out and, and Pine Valley as well.
Speaker C:You know, he's a, He's a good friend and we have a lot of fun out there on the golf course.
Speaker A:He's a great Guy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, Ozzy, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker A:Honestly, this is such a, such a, such a treasured moment for me growing up, watching you play, getting a chance to, to sit here and chat with you about your history, about your love of the game of golf and baseball.
Speaker A:This has just been such an honor.
Speaker A:So thank you for your time, Jeff.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:You guys have a great day.
Speaker A:You too.
Speaker A:All right, that was our interview with the Wizard, Ozzie Smith.
Speaker A:What do you think, jb?
Speaker B:I. I love it.
Speaker B:I mean, I think even what we were talking about kind of before about like, being athletic and swinging, like, it was just really cool to listen to him talk about how, like, he trained as a kid, like, you know, trying to throw the ball over, you know, the roof and go get it and just like be athletic and put yourself in positions to, to be an athlete.
Speaker B:It kind of just like, it made me excited and wanted to go be a kid outside with my boys and it just was.
Speaker B:It seemed so simple.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:Just him being an athlete out there, the behind the back.
Speaker B:I love how he drew that into.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's how I was playing basketball, you know, Like, I'd never thought about some of those kind of cross sports references that he threw in there.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was crazy to watch some of the highlights of him when I was getting ready for the show.
Speaker A:And one of his favorite plays of all time, it was when he was.
Speaker A:It was only his 10th game in.
Speaker A:He was playing for the Padres and he's like moving one way and the ball hits a rock and it goes the other way and he catches it with his bare hand and like flips it over.
Speaker A:It's like, you can't prepare for that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And it's just being totally in the moment.
Speaker A:It's being in that flow state and, and as he talked about being so free out there, you can tell he has such an appreciation for feeling like a kid out on the court, on the, on the playing field.
Speaker A:But then also, I think that's how he approaches the game of golf too.
Speaker A:And he realizes that there's so much value in staying competitive and staying in a game that you love to play.
Speaker A:You can compete with yourself.
Speaker A:Still brings up the nerves a little bit, you know, brings that competitive edge.
Speaker A:So it was just so much fun to hear a, a peak athlete that has reached the highest level and why he loves this game that we love so much.
Speaker A:And I just think that that's so cool that we're all connected by this game and we can all sit and chat for hours because we've all had similar experiences out there, no matter who it is.
Speaker A:You got a guy like Ozzy that's, you know, been to the highest of of sports, but he's having the same nerves, he's having the same issues, the same thoughts that we have out there.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think, too.
Speaker B:And you were kind of.
Speaker B:He was talking about kind of when you retire from the sport, you miss that competitive aspect, and then you also miss the camaraderie.
Speaker B:And I think that's why, like so many athletes and just people in general get into golf, because it's like it brings both those components in.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You have the competitiveness, whether it's against yourself or, you know, game against your buddy, but you're also hanging out with them for nine or 18 holes, just, you know, walking the course or riding the cart, and it's the best.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it was kind of fun to hear him poke a little fun at our buddy Jim Holgreave, too.
Speaker B:Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker B:I'm looking forward to hear what Jim thinks about that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, me too.
Speaker A:All right, my friend.
Speaker A:That's it for this week.
Speaker A:Next week we've got Lt. Col. Dan Rooney from Folds of Honor.
Speaker A:So we got another one, another good one coming up and a couple other great guests that are scheduled.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Looking forward to them.
Speaker A:All right, thanks, everybody, for joining us on Golf Don't Lie.
Speaker A:We'll catch up with you next week.
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