Episode 9
Ep.09 (GDL) Curt Rohe — Golf Tournament Setup, The Handicapping System, and Common Rule Mistakes
Curt Rohe is the Executive Director of the Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association — the governing body for competitive golf in the St. Louis region. Jeff and Justin dive into how tournaments are set up, why handicaps matter more than golfers realize, the most misunderstood everyday rules, and the massive “Normandy Reimagined” project involving Jack Nicklaus that’s reshaping public golf access in St. Louis.
In this episode of GOLF DON’T LIE™️, Jeff sits down with Curt Rohe, Executive Director of the Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association, for a behind-the-scenes look at competitive golf in the St. Louis region. Curt explains what actually goes into running tournament operations — marking courses, selecting hole locations, coordinating rules officials — and why certain rules still trip golfers up at every level.
They also break down handicapping: why every golfer should have one, how nine-hole and partial-round posting works, and how the system measures improvement.
A major highlight is the Normandy Reimagined project — a Jack Nicklaus–led renovation that will bring a top-tier public golf course, a youth caddie program, Evans Scholarship opportunities, and First Tee programming to North St. Louis County. Curt shares updates, stories from Jack’s visits, and why this project is about more than golf — it’s about revitalizing a community.
In This Episode, We Discuss:
- What the Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association does across the region
- How tournament setup works behind the scenes
- The most misunderstood rules golfers constantly misapply
- Why a handicap matters (even for casual players)
- How nine-hole and partial-round posting actually works
- The vision behind the Normandy Reimagined project
- Jack Nicklaus’ direct involvement and on-site visits
- How the caddie program ties into the Evans Scholars pipeline
- Curt’s path from rural Missouri to leading golf administration
- What 25 years of golf has taught him about humility and service
Guest Bio — Curt Rohe
Curt Rohe is the Executive Director of the Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association, where he has overseen competitive golf, USGA qualifiers, course rating, and handicapping operations for more than two decades. Known for his elite tournament setup and rules knowledge, Curt also serves on the board of the Metropolitan Golf Foundation, which is leading the Normandy Reimagined project with Jack Nicklaus, First Tee, and the Western Golf Association.
Links & Resources
- Normandy Reimagined: https://normandreimagined.com
- Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association: https://metga.org
- 18STRONG: https://18strong.com
- Fairway Fuel Mix (1st Phorm x 18STRONG): https://1stphorm.com/18strong
- Instagram:
- @golfdontlie
- @18strong
- @18strongjeff
Transcript
The Golf Don't Live podcast is proudly brought to you by our friends over at first form.
Speaker B:Different paths, different stories.
Speaker C:This, this, this game tells all.
Speaker C:Gol don't live.
Speaker A:What's up, everybody?
Speaker A:Welcome back to Golf Don't Lie, a podcast where we talk to some of the coolest people in the world of golf.
Speaker A:And one thing that we know is that golf kind of exposes the best and the worst in all of us.
Speaker A:And so we're here to tell their stories, hear their, and just have a good time doing it.
Speaker A:I've got my co host, Justin Bryant here.
Speaker A:What's up, J.B. jeff.
Speaker B:What's going on, man?
Speaker A:Not too much, not too much.
Speaker A:Just finished up my little stack system training with the Rapsodo, which.
Speaker A:That's pretty cool, the way that those two things sync together.
Speaker A:It's been fun.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Give me a little update on where you are.
Speaker B:You've been sending me some numbers, so kind of break it down for me a little bit.
Speaker A:Yeah, what it did say today, man, if I could only square up the club face so that his numbers are real, it'd be awesome.
Speaker A:Um, I think it said the potential, what e speed was 113, and I don't remember what the distance was.307 or 309 or something like that.
Speaker A:Maybe even more than that.
Speaker C:Well, let me.
Speaker A:Let me get the official number, because I just sent it to you.
Speaker A:It is a potential distance.312.
Speaker B:Oh, you got that.
Speaker B:You got that.
Speaker B:As long as you didn't, like, up the altitude in that app, because they can have some adjustments.
Speaker A:Sea level, maybe.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it's a cool program, and it just.
Speaker B:It's just nice how it walks you through.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I think, like, so much about, like, golf, if you're looking to get better, I'm just a big believer that you have to have, like, baselines.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, you have to know, like.
Speaker B:And see what.
Speaker B:See where you are to know where you want to go.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It'd be like if I came to the gym and we didn't mark any.
Speaker B:Mark any of the weights.
Speaker B:It's like you might feel like you're getting stronger or quicker, but it's.
Speaker B:It's nice to actually kind of see the progress and kind of get a confidence boost when it's working and when it's not working, and then it's like, okay, what.
Speaker B:What do I need to do to make some improvements?
Speaker A:Yeah, there's so much benefit to seeing the previous swing speed, because then, you know, you can go after it a little bit.
Speaker A:More or if you don't have any of that feedback.
Speaker A:And to your point, it's the same thing in the gym, and we run into this all the time where people don't necessarily track what they're doing in the gym.
Speaker A:So let's say you're going and you're doing a dumbbell press and you're pressing £40.
Speaker A:Well, if you don't write it down and show that you did £40 eight times, four for four sets, the next week you come in, you're gonna be like, I think I did, like, 40.
Speaker A:And then you do £40 again.
Speaker A:And then the week after that you do £40 again.
Speaker A:And you never really bump it up.
Speaker A:Whereas if you're writing it down, you'd be like, oh, I did 40 last time.
Speaker A:Let's try 45 and see how that goes.
Speaker A:And oh, my gosh, I can do 45.
Speaker C:Why would I.
Speaker A:Why was I sticking there?
Speaker A:Same thing with having the launch monitor and being able to tell, like, oh, that swing was 105.
Speaker A:Well, let me try a little bit harder.
Speaker A:Oh, man, that was.
Speaker A:That was 107, you know.
Speaker A:So just to give that feedback makes you push it a little bit harder.
Speaker A:And that over the course of many days, weeks, months, ultimately you then look back and you've made so much progress.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker B:It's like a fun little game.
Speaker B:And the stack does a really good job of walking you through the program where you don't have to.
Speaker B:You don't have to think too much.
Speaker B:It's like, it tells you what days you should do.
Speaker B:It walks you through.
Speaker B:Like, it gives you that timer countdown, which is.
Speaker B:Which is nice, you know, because I feel like all of us are like, you do a swing, whether it's good or bad, and you're anxious to do another one quick, and it's kind of like, okay, let your body recover a little bit.
Speaker B:So glad to.
Speaker B:Glad to see you're getting in there.
Speaker B:It's going to help your game too, I think, too.
Speaker B:Like, what I've discovered with mine is it just makes you more athletic.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Like, you're not really thinking when you're doing that.
Speaker B:And obviously, once you put a ball in a club there, it's.
Speaker B:It's hard to, like, replicate that.
Speaker B:But I think just getting those, like, movement patterns down is just really important and kind of understanding, like, how your body moves efficiently.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think it'll bleed through in a lot of areas.
Speaker A:I totally agree.
Speaker A:What's going on with your.
Speaker A:Your chase for 180 yeah, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:Man, I feel like I'm getting, Getting.
Speaker B:Trying to get close.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I'm gonna do some of my speed training actually today as well.
Speaker B:I haven't done mine yet.
Speaker B:I hit some earlier this week, and was.
Speaker B:Was capping out at 176 on the ball speed.
Speaker B:Club speed.
Speaker B:Was capping out at 121, I think.
Speaker B:So it's there.
Speaker B:I gotta say, like, I don't know if this is cheating or not.
Speaker B:Would love your input is I hit up on the ball a lot.
Speaker B:So, like, for me, like, I'm really trying to get the ball speed is my goal.
Speaker B:Not necessarily the.
Speaker B:The club speed, but obviously to get the ball speed.
Speaker B:There's only.
Speaker B:You got to swing it fast enough.
Speaker B:But so I want to get to 180 by the end of the year.
Speaker B:So a smash.
Speaker B:If I had a perfect hit, right?
Speaker B:1.5 smash.
Speaker B:That's 120 balls club speed.
Speaker B:So, like, I'm in the neighborhood, but I swing up on the ball about six degrees.
Speaker B:So I. I, you know, I kind of have a coming up into the ball, which.
Speaker B:Which helps with distance if you get the spin low.
Speaker B:But I've noticed that the energy transfer is not as high because it more like a glancing blow.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:When you think about the smash factor, I know we're nerding out here a little bit, but so I cranked the driver down two degrees because I'm like, well, that's going to in increase my smash because there's less loft and early signs that could also help me get to the finish line.
Speaker B:So I'm, you know, I'm using a technology to my advantage here, but definitely want to increase that speed just a little bit more because I've noticed I can kind of hover around 119, 121.
Speaker B:And I kind of want to get a little bit again.
Speaker B:I'm not chasing.
Speaker B:I know we have a guest here in the future that is chasing 190.
Speaker B:Won't tease that, spoil that one yet, but I don't think I'm quite there.
Speaker B:But I want to kind of get into that low 180s when I really, really stretch for it, and then have kind of that cruiser on the course and, like, the one low 170s.
Speaker B:So I'm feeling good.
Speaker B:We got, what, six weeks for the push?
Speaker B:We're gonna make it happen here, Jeff, towards the end of the year.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:I can't imagine you had a whole lot of time last week to get much training in when you're at the down in Orlando.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was a cool experience.
Speaker B:So, you know, being at Rapsoda, we've partnered with the Golf Golf Digest for the last, I think six years.
Speaker B:So we go down for their, you know, hot list summit.
Speaker B:It's a two week event.
Speaker B:I was there during the second week, but it's that issue that comes out in around February where they're reviewing all the clubs.
Speaker B:So it was really cool to just kind of see all the equipment, the stuff that's out and then the stuff that hasn't been released yet and kind of see some of the clubs that are out there, some of the putters.
Speaker B:There's a lot of fitters out there from like Golf Galaxy.
Speaker B:So I was picking their brain because, you know, I think we discussed my chef broke last time and just trying to understand some of, some of that nuance.
Speaker B:But it's, yeah, the golf world, there's a lot, there's a lot going on.
Speaker B:We saw clubs that had like pure gold in them that were like, I think it was this Japan company and like the driver, if you get the top models, like 25 grand for a gold driver.
Speaker B:So that was interesting.
Speaker B:But yeah, there's some, there's some cool stuff coming out next year.
Speaker B:So it's always kind of fun to see.
Speaker B:Obviously can't talk about it, but specifically.
Speaker B:But it's always fun to get a sneak peek at the, the new tech.
Speaker B:And it took a couple swings on there.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:It always amazes me.
Speaker A:Much new stuff they keep coming up with or keep figuring out ways to market that it's new or change or tweak a little bit with all the equipment companies, the balls, the clubs and if, if any of you listening haven't ever been to the PGA show and you have a chance to go just once in your lifetime.
Speaker A:It's such a spectacle of so many things.
Speaker A:First of all, that, you know, we're such a rip, a rich, opulent society and just, you know, we've got so many different things that we can spend money on that there's some of the most outlandish things.
Speaker A:But even just the upgrades in equipment and technology and everything that's coming out, it just blows your mind.
Speaker A:So if you love to geek out on that stuff.
Speaker A:If you're a golf nerd, you have to get down there just to see the spectacle of how many different things, how many different companies are out there and you'll find things that you never even knew existed.
Speaker B:Yeah, we have, we have some new people on our team here.
Speaker B:And well be down there with a booth set up.
Speaker B:And I was like, you can't see everything where.
Speaker B:I think we're there from Tuesday to Friday, and you won't be able to see every setup.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:There's so much, you know, so many booths.
Speaker B:So much is happening in the golf space, from tech to clothing to apparel and all this, you know, just cool golf stuff.
Speaker B:And it's a. Yeah, you can really.
Speaker B:You can really nerd out.
Speaker B:But excited for that week.
Speaker B:If anybody listening is going to be down there, I'll be there at the Rep SODO booth.
Speaker B:Please come by.
Speaker B:Be out there in demo day or inside the convention center.
Speaker B:Come, come say hi.
Speaker B:And we'll.
Speaker B:We'll be having some new, new stuff ourselves.
Speaker B:So excited to show.
Speaker B:Show that.
Speaker A:Very cool.
Speaker A:All right, man.
Speaker A:Well, let's get into our.
Speaker A:Our guest for this week, a good friend of.
Speaker A:Of both you and I, a guy that we've known for a long time, Kurt Rowe, who is the head of the Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association.
Speaker A:I know you've had many experiences with Kurt, setting up courses of championships that you're playing in.
Speaker A:It was really fun to talk to him.
Speaker A:First of all, Kurt, just some insider baseball here.
Speaker A:Kurt has helped us out so much, 19 strong as far as setting up golf genius for some of our events for, like, a loop de loo and trips to Nashville and different things.
Speaker A:So it's fun to watch him, like, how quickly he can put those spreadsheets and everything together or the tournament data in golf genius.
Speaker A:It's kind of amazing.
Speaker A:He's like a robot when it comes to that stuff.
Speaker A:But he's been so gracious to help us with so many different events and just little things that we do with the.
Speaker A:The chase for the Buckle Series and the Friday loop.
Speaker A:And so it was fun to talk to him about, you know, what really goes into running the.
Speaker A:The Metropolitan Amateur Golf association, what goes into setting up those tournaments that you play in.
Speaker A:And I'm sure you've, you know, had many experiences where you're kind of like, dude, Kurt, what's going on with this pin placement here?
Speaker B:Yeah, Kurt, you know, Kurt's the best.
Speaker B:I mean, he.
Speaker B:I. I hope he, you know, gets enough praise for what he does, but he is so good at, you know, setting up courses and just kind of like the little things from, like, you know, good TE's, like to grab on the first tee to the pin sheets.
Speaker B:Like, I think, you know, I took that for granted for a lot of years just because that's, like, I Grew up playing junior golf in the am, golf in the area, and that's just my experience.
Speaker B:And then I go play all these events or across the country, and I'm like, wait, why isn't this pinching good?
Speaker B:So I think just in terms of, like, the preparation, you know, Kurt and his team does such a good job.
Speaker B:I always love how he sets up a course.
Speaker B:You know, he sets it up, I think, in a.
Speaker B:In a challenging way, but also, you know, fun at the same time.
Speaker B:Moving tea markers around, making holes drivable sometimes that, you know, are maybe drivable, you know, on day one.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Always love a Kurt setup.
Speaker B:You know, I don't.
Speaker B:You know, I know.
Speaker B:I know there.
Speaker B:There's times where people give them.
Speaker B:Give them a hard time on the pins.
Speaker B:I love kind of seeing the crazy pins.
Speaker B:So Kurt, you know, keep them.
Speaker B:Keep them coming.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was neat to talk to him about, you know, the.
Speaker A:The setup and what goes into all of that stuff.
Speaker A:But also, we got into a really cool project that they have going on here in St. Louis, which is the.
Speaker A:The Reimagination of Normandy Golf Course.
Speaker A:And I'm not going to spoil too much because we get into it in there, but, you know, it's got Jack Nicklaus involved, and Kurt may or may not have been Jack's chauffeur for the day and driving him around, and Jack kicked him out of the driver's seat for the golf cart and said, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm driving, you know, but they're doing a really cool thing in the north side of town, which has a couple of golf courses that, you know, used to be like, these flourishing golf courses and now need a little help, need a little love.
Speaker A:And they're bringing back a lot to the neighborhood, to the kids.
Speaker A:They're implementing a caddy program that's going to be there, and it's just really neat to hear all of the things that are being in.
Speaker A:That are involved in getting this project going, and some of the local companies here in St. Louis that are really helping to foster that and hopefully to bring some new life to that neighborhood.
Speaker A:I, sadly to say, have never played Normandy Golf Course, and I should have done it before they did the.
Speaker A:The whole reconstruction, but I'm so looking forward to getting out there and.
Speaker A:And seeing this course.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've.
Speaker B:I followed the project.
Speaker B:I played it.
Speaker B:I've played it a few times.
Speaker B:We played in high school and then would play the Normandy Aminer when it was there, kind of before they started this.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's such a.
Speaker B:There's a lot of history there just with that course.
Speaker B:You know, how long it's been there and was such a fun track and really excited to see like, it come to life, you know, I guess next year when it's fully open.
Speaker B:But I've seen kind of.
Speaker B:I know Kurt's taking some drone footage along the way and posted on social and it's just been cool.
Speaker B:Cool to see and excited.
Speaker B:We're gonna have to go out there next year, play and I don't know, maybe have.
Speaker B:Maybe have a little vent out there.
Speaker B:That'd be.
Speaker B:That'd be a cool spot.
Speaker B:It's got a unique, you know, 18 hole finish, par three.
Speaker B:Um, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a cool spot.
Speaker B:So I'm really, I'm excited for that project as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker A:They just had a big announcement that another local company, Emerson, is putting in.
Speaker A:I saw that another $7 million into the project.
Speaker A:So that's huge because I know that they were making a big push for some extra funding and, and they needed to.
Speaker A:To get that to help finish the rest of the hole.
Speaker A:Some of the holes are done, but they need to need to make that push.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Really cool episode.
Speaker A:Great guy.
Speaker A:One of our great friends here at 18 strong can't thank him enough for everything that he's done.
Speaker A:So I know you guys are really going to en episode.
Speaker A:And real quick, for all of you that are listening, if you are getting any insights benefit you, you like the stories, you like the guests, please help share the show.
Speaker A:That's the best way that we can get the word out on golf.
Speaker A:Don't lie.
Speaker A:And we want to get more of you in the 18 strong crew.
Speaker A:Bring your buddies and, and tell the stories of the cool people that we have on the show.
Speaker A:And then also we wouldn't mind if you went over and followed us on social media.
Speaker A:18 strong.
Speaker A:18 strong, Jeff.
Speaker A:And the good bogey for Justin Bryant and his crazy awesome designs in the golf world.
Speaker A:So this is our episode with Kurt Rowe and we'll see you on the other side.
Speaker A:Kurt Rowe, my friend, welcome to golf don't lie.
Speaker C:What's up, Jeff?
Speaker C:Thank you for having me.
Speaker A:Absolutely, buddy.
Speaker A:So it sounds like you're kind of wrapping up end of the season stuff.
Speaker A:You got a couple more things to go.
Speaker C: lifier tomorrow, which is the: Speaker C:So we run Qualifying for the, for the four ball qualifiers to run from now to the end of December around the country.
Speaker C:But that's for next year's championship.
Speaker C:So yeah, we have had that tomorrow out at Forest Hills and.
Speaker C:Which is a little later than normal to have that.
Speaker C:Usually not wrapping up the season with USG qualifiers, but.
Speaker C:So yeah, the light at the end of the tunnel, I see it.
Speaker A:How many guys will be in that?
Speaker A:Because Justin Bryant is playing in that.
Speaker A:We were just chatting about that a little bit.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, we have 54 sides or teams, so 108 players playing and playing for two spots to the championship.
Speaker A:And then do you know where, where that championship is already next year?
Speaker C:Desert Mountain Club.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:I hear that place is awesome.
Speaker A:They've got like seven courses out there or something.
Speaker C:I think you're right.
Speaker C:I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker C:Never been there.
Speaker C:But yeah, it's a desert mountain.
Speaker A:So what does it look like?
Speaker A:Give us a little glimpse and I'm sure we'll talk about this quite a bit in this episode.
Speaker A:But you prepping for this four ball championship, what does even just the day before and the day of look like for you?
Speaker C:Yeah, so yeah, even today.
Speaker C:So yeah, yesterday I went out there, went out to Forest Hills and well, I mean prep's been going on.
Speaker C:Entries like one odd thing about this four ball is again they go all fall and so the entries closed like back in mid August.
Speaker C:So I've known for like two months kind of who my field was.
Speaker C:And we've been having some withdrawals and substitutions.
Speaker C:So we had a waiting list this and that to get ready for tomorrow.
Speaker C:So about two weeks ago when I kind of had my.
Speaker C:A better grasp on what my field was, you know, it's in some information to the players saying this is how you can arrange for your practice rounds and this and that.
Speaker C:And then last Wednesday I always wait till like the Wednesday before a qualifier to publish tee times because of you get these withdrawals and all this so that your field can change its field size.
Speaker C:So I want to have the best, have my groupings, everything is set best I can.
Speaker C:So we did that last Wednesday and then we got till yesterday I went out and marked the golf course.
Speaker C:So we, you know, mark all the penalty areas, get all the paint, paint down for the red and yellow and this and that, check boundary, you know, for rules and all that stuff.
Speaker C:So did that yesterday morning and then, then this morning I was out there at 7am and get out there and choose my whole locations for tomorrow.
Speaker C:So go around, check all the, check all the greens and you know, we choose all the whole locations for the, for play for tomorrow to do the final setup.
Speaker C:Also looking at the golf course to finish writing my rule sheet to notice the players.
Speaker C:So did all that and then rest of the day I've kind of been here at the office, you know, just getting all that stuff together, getting, getting the rule sheet done, getting the, you know, paperwork printed and allocations printed and, and packets together for my officials and my, my rules committee for tomorrow and, and scorecards and, you know, all that, all that jazz for tomorrow.
Speaker C:And then a little later, I'll still, I'll go out there this evening, take the trailer.
Speaker C:We have a tournament trailer as you know.
Speaker C:You know, I'll take that out there, get that set up.
Speaker C:So, and then I'll be back at probably 6:15 in the morning for 7:30 start.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:So the, the pin placements are usually a bit of a point of contention in every tournament that has ever played known to man.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:How do you actually go about determining where you're, you know, what goes into that decision of where to put the pins, what holes, what days, depending on how many days the tournament's actually being played.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, you know, one thing about doing this for 25 years, I, I know these golf courses, you know, I can, I could set all locations right here in my desk for a lot of these, you know, because we've got all the records and got all this stuff.
Speaker C:But I mean, how.
Speaker C:There's a really a philosophy.
Speaker C:I mean, we obviously, we want to, we want to challenge, you know, tomorrow we want to challenge the players, you know, they are qualifying for USG Championship.
Speaker C:So we want to, you know, we want a challenging but fair setup.
Speaker C:You know, we look, when I look at hole locations from a, again, a philosophy standpoint, you know, a lot of people say, what do you do?
Speaker C:The six, six and six, six easy, six medium, six hard.
Speaker C:Not necessarily.
Speaker C:You know, you got to look at what shots, like for instance, two of the, two of the par fives we're playing as par fours tomorrow, basically from the par five yardage, you know, 490 and 500 yards.
Speaker C:So, you know, I'm going to set that whole location different than I would if we're playing as a par 5.
Speaker C:Because we're asking each player to hit long irons or maybe hybrid or something like that into, into those putting rings.
Speaker C:But generally it's just a, we want to mix.
Speaker C:I try to get a mix of fronts and backs, mix of left and rights, you know, Ideally, I want nine, nine holes on the left side, nine holes on the right side.
Speaker C:So you got a, an even mixture of that and then the same as the front backs and middles.
Speaker C:You know, you don't want every hole, you know, two, three paces off the back edge of the green.
Speaker C:You don't want to three paces off the, you know, just off the front.
Speaker C:So, you know, just, you got, want to give them a mix of all those different, you know, a variety of locations.
Speaker A:You mentioned some of the different people that you have to get notes out to, aside from just the players.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:How many people are actually involved in something like this from volunteer wise?
Speaker A:And how does that work with the USGA and the Metro and everything?
Speaker C:Sure, yeah.
Speaker C:So like for instance, tomorrow, I mean we have a, I mean my staff is two and I still have one intern yet through the end of the month, full time staffer to, you know, Caroline and I.
Speaker C:And then, you know, we rely on it heavily on a volunteer base, especially on our rules committee.
Speaker C:And I probably have 45 to 50 people that are on that committee and you know, they, they register, you know, a month or month and a half ahead whether they can make it that day.
Speaker C:So like for tomorrow I got roughly 10 people coming out that are volunteering tomorrow as rules for rules committee.
Speaker C:But they're also doing starting, they'll do scoring at 18 and then act as rules officials, you know, out on the golf course, monitoring pace of play, you know, getting involved.
Speaker C:If players have any ruling questions.
Speaker C:I don't know if we have.
Speaker C:I know, I know Caroline put out there and he checked with her.
Speaker C:If we've got a couple other volunteers that might, we'll put them on a hole or something where they can put in scores so we can update, you know, golf Genius in that throughout the day and kind of keep a somewhat live leaderboard going.
Speaker C:I don't use, you know, Jeff, you used Golf Genius and how, you know, we do it like for the loop to Lou, where the players are, you know, we're putting that stuff in.
Speaker C:That's just one thing I don't do for, for USJ qualifying rounds.
Speaker C:I just feel like, you know, these, these guys are out there trying to qualify for a national championship.
Speaker C:I'm not going to ask them to worry about getting their phones out and putting scores in after every hole.
Speaker C:So that's another, another volunteer aspect that we try to, you know, get a handful of people to come out and help us, help us with, you know, on the course.
Speaker C:So, so yeah, so there's, you know, there's 12 to 15 people involved, you know, kind of behind the scenes that are there tomorrow to, to help us out throughout the day because it's gonna be a long day.
Speaker C: tee, and our last tee time is: Speaker C:And you know, it's, it's so there's almost five hours of tee times.
Speaker C:And you know, in this format, four ball, which is, you know, four balls in play, you know, you can expect a five to five and a half hour round probably easily just because of that.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it'll be, it'll be a full day tomorrow.
Speaker C:Thankfully, the weather looks fantastic.
Speaker C:So that's, that's all that matters.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's one thing we have going for us.
Speaker A:And then of course, there's always the possibility of some sort of a shootout to take it into extra holes and.
Speaker A:Yep, seems like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, seems like that happens more times than not, right?
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Because like I said, you know, right.
Speaker C:Where we have to identify two spots.
Speaker C:There's two spots available to go to the championship, and then the other side is that we, we have to identify two alternates and they have to be identified as one and two.
Speaker C:So, so yeah, there's, yeah, there's always a good chance for some kind of playoff to, to get those, get those exact numbers that we need.
Speaker A:So in the intro to, to our conversation that Justin and I did, we kind of gave a little background on, on what you do in the Metropolitan Amateur Golf association, but give us a little bit more detail into how this is affiliated with the usga.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:Really, Kurt, even how, you know, I know you and I have talked about this, but the background on how you got into this position and what, what brought you into the, the world of golf.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, we'll start the.
Speaker C:I mean, I can start with me, I guess.
Speaker C:You know, it's, it's, it's kind of a funny story, Jeff.
Speaker C:I, I didn't grow up around the game.
Speaker C:You know, I'm just a, I'm a kid country boy from Dutch Hole, Missouri.
Speaker C:I'm sure all your listeners are going to know exactly where that's at, but kind of out by Washington, Missouri, I.
Speaker C:People, you know, if I'm traveling, people ask me where I'm from.
Speaker C:If I say Washington, I get a little bit of a reaction.
Speaker C:But if I say good.
Speaker C:So I get that blank stare like, you know, what are you talking about?
Speaker C:So, you know, grew up out in that area, wasn't a golfer, didn't play the game.
Speaker C:My family doesn't play the game.
Speaker C:Got started playing probably a little bit when I was 12 or 13.
Speaker C:And honestly, my first experience playing golf was in a cow pasture in Dutchell, Missouri.
Speaker C:My brother's best friend were farmers, but they also like to play golf.
Speaker C:And they.
Speaker C:In the summer, they took a back cow pasture in one of their fields on the farm, and they would cut nine circles kind of down and stick a flag stick in the middle.
Speaker C:And they had two old Harley Davidson, like three wheeled golf carts, you know, the old, old school ones, and with a bunch of golf clubs in the back.
Speaker C:And we'd go out and, you know, bang the golf ball around the cow pasture.
Speaker C:And that's honestly my first introduction to hitting the ball.
Speaker C:Start playing a little more.
Speaker C:When I went to junior high in Washington, so seventh grade, I got some new friends who play a little bit, and so got into it a little more, but still wasn't my thing.
Speaker C:My.
Speaker C:My sport was baseball.
Speaker C:I was, you know, at any high schooler play, you know, I was going to be the next whatever, you know, down the road.
Speaker C:And, you know, I had aspirations of playing college and all that, which I, you know, thankfully got to do a couple years at least, you know, junior college.
Speaker C:But really, the golf thing really came in, I guess about 92 when Boone Valley opened.
Speaker C:So I grew up.
Speaker C:So I grew up about 10 minutes from Boone Valley Golf Club, and they were getting ready to open and they were looking for caddies and stuff like that.
Speaker C:And so I put an application in.
Speaker C:Actually, my grandmother, of all people sent me, kind of.
Speaker C:Kind of directed me to it because her cousin lives.
Speaker C:Was that when you pull into Boone Valley, there's that house right there on that corner.
Speaker C:And that was my grandma's cousin.
Speaker C:And she, you know, I talked to.
Speaker C:The name was Andy Moshmeyer.
Speaker C:And somehow she found out, you know, from him that they, you know, Boone Valley was opening.
Speaker C:And that's how I kind of found about the caddy job.
Speaker C:So I applied.
Speaker C:I started caddying.
Speaker C:I caddy the day they opened in 92.
Speaker C:Spent about a month or two months caddy.
Speaker C:And then, like, they didn't hire any, like, bad kids.
Speaker C:So there was nobody, you know, it was just the head.
Speaker C:The director got the pro.
Speaker C:And, you know, and they kind of.
Speaker C:And they were the ones picking the range and all that.
Speaker C:They're like, wait a second, we need to hire some kids to do this, you know, this groundwork, you know.
Speaker C:So they asked us caddies, like, who anybody else would be interested in doing this other, you know, this other Stuff and, you know, and some of us raised our hand, said, yeah, you know, be interested.
Speaker C:So they literally threw our names in a hat.
Speaker C:And I got my hat, my name drawn out, and I ended up, you know, being a bank kid or a cart room boy.
Speaker C:So did that for three summers, and then honestly was coming back for the fourth summer.
Speaker C:I had finished baseball in the spring at East Central Junior College and drove down to Boone one Saturday and was like, I'm, you know, I, a Dave Pierce was.
Speaker C:Was the head pro.
Speaker C:And I said, hey, Dave, you know, I'm.
Speaker C:I'm done, you know, school.
Speaker C:I'm could be put back on a schedule for the summer.
Speaker C:And he, he literally says, like, I don't have a space for you this summer.
Speaker C:He goes, we.
Speaker C:We got some other kids working and we're gonna stick with them.
Speaker C:I'm like, well, all right.
Speaker C:And yeah, well, the shocker.
Speaker C:And he said, maybe.
Speaker C:Maybe Henson's got something.
Speaker C:Rick Henson, who's the superintendent out there, still is to this day.
Speaker C:And he said, maybe Rick's got something.
Speaker C:So I got in my car and drove down to the maintenance facility and walked in Rick's office and said, hey, Rick, you know, Dave says he ain't got nothing for me this summer, so, you know, would you have a spot.
Speaker C:Spot for me on the grounds crew?
Speaker C:And did.
Speaker C:And so then I spent three summers on the grounds crew at Boone Valley.
Speaker C:So six summers total working at Boone.
Speaker C:So anyway, trying to keep a short, you know, long story short, that's really how I got, but still not anywhere to think that I had a career.
Speaker C:So I went off to.
Speaker C:I finished decentral, went off to St. Louis University, and in that 90.
Speaker C:In 98, I finished my first, first year at SLU and was probably going to work at Algonquin.
Speaker C:Tim Rother, who's a superintendent at Algonquin at the time now at o', Warson, came from Boone Valley.
Speaker C:So I knew, well, I would go over there on the weekends and mow greens or cut fairways or something for him.
Speaker C:And so I was probably just going to work at Algonquin for him.
Speaker C:And I saw an ad in the paper for an internship with the Metropolitan Golf association and answered it, new Tom o'.
Speaker C:Toole.
Speaker C:A little bit from.
Speaker C:From Boone Valley days.
Speaker C:Back then, the.
Speaker C:Our.
Speaker C:What is now our Washington cup was the Taylor cup at Boone Valley, which is our match play championship.
Speaker C:So I knew him, you know, a little bit.
Speaker C:And, you know, he hired me in that summer 98.
Speaker C:And I just kind of right away thought, wait a second.
Speaker C:There I never thought there would be a career in golf for, for me but that's how I really found out about it and kind of fell in love with the administrative side of the game because I wasn't a.
Speaker C:Didn't I. I mean I played, but I was, I wasn't.
Speaker C:I really wasn't any good.
Speaker C:Not.
Speaker C:And I didn't play competitively or anything like that, but someway did that in 98, 99.
Speaker C:Then after school I went and worked at Franklin County Country Club out in Washington for two summers.
Speaker C:Wasn't.
Speaker C:I was kind of done with that.
Speaker C:I, I'm glad I got to do it work worked at a private club.
Speaker C:But I, I kind of looked at it like I had 350 bosses and that I, I didn't need 350 bosses.
Speaker C: ranklin county that summer in: Speaker C:And I was, you know, riding around with Tom and just said, you know, I'm gonna look for something else at the summer goes.
Speaker C:And he said let's talk before you make any decision.
Speaker C:And by, By August of 01, he had.
Speaker C:He brought me back full time.
Speaker C:And so In October of A1, I came back to the Golf association full time.
Speaker C:And here I am 20, you know, gonna be 25 years this coming that I've been back full time.
Speaker C:So anyway, that's my, that's my little journey and how I got into the, into the golf industry and, and it's been, I gotta be.
Speaker C:It's been a blessing.
Speaker C:I've, I've enjoyed it.
Speaker C:People ask me all the time, do you enjoy it?
Speaker C:So well, I've been here 25 years.
Speaker C:Something must be going right.
Speaker C:Otherwise I, you know, I put one in a different direction.
Speaker A:I always love to hear the different paths that end up taking people unexpectedly into whatever it is really.
Speaker A:But you know, golf seems to have this way of, of kind of us finding different avenues and navigations to get to where we are.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:So you then have been working there for 25 years and you run a lot of the, I mean major tournaments that go on in this area and kind of the surrounding area of St. Louis.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So how does that, how are you affiliated with the usga?
Speaker A:How does all of that work?
Speaker A:Because, you know, the handicapping goes through you guys and so many other different things go through you guys.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So the Metropolitan Amateur Golf association is a, is a.
Speaker C:We are called an Allied Golf association.
Speaker C:Of the usga.
Speaker C:So we are licensed by the USGA to provide our core services.
Speaker C:Our core services are handicapping course training, the rules of golf and that with from the usga.
Speaker C:So we, we have a, we have a license with them.
Speaker C:There's 50, we're one of 59 I think around the country of allied golf associations.
Speaker C: eight, seven eight years ago,: Speaker C:And but some of those, some of those associations were not what I call full service associations.
Speaker C:They did core training but they maybe didn't provide handicapping and such.
Speaker C:So the USGA made some a little consolidation and that's where you know we, we became maintained as one of those agas as we're called.
Speaker C:And so we yeah, we do the handicapping is our, one of our main services.
Speaker C:So the gin handicap service ghin that hopefully many of your listeners are you know, aware of and members of the associations, we provide that service to clubs and golfers throughout the St. Louis we call, our area is St. Louis, St. Louis county and kind of counties that surround it.
Speaker C:But in Illinois we are in up, all the way up in Quincy, Illinois and then kind of down the river.
Speaker C:It's all by counties central and all southern.
Speaker C:So we have all, basically all of southern Illinois that, that is that we provide free services to course rating service.
Speaker C:So you know, you see USGA course on slope rating at a golf course.
Speaker C:That's something that we are, we're the only ones that are able to and licensed to do that.
Speaker C:A whole other volunteer corps that I have of you know, 20 or 30 men and ladies, men and women who you know, go out perform that service for us.
Speaker C:And then lastly is the, you mentioned the championships.
Speaker C:You know, we have 14 of our own championships that we conduct.
Speaker C:We run eight USGA qualifiers as I mentioned earlier that we get the last one tomorrow, eight, sometimes nine.
Speaker C:Every year is a little different.
Speaker C:And then we have our amateur series of events which we're wrapping up today.
Speaker C:Our amateur series which is a season long one day events wrapped up with a two day championship and that's, that's ending today.
Speaker C:So it comes out to I think it's almost 40 or 42 days of competition, you know that we oversee and conduct and, and throughout the season.
Speaker C:So so anyway that's, that's where, that's where the Metropolitan Amateur Golf association, you know comes, comes into play and how our, how we are affiliated with the, with the usga.
Speaker A:Yeah, I didn't really realize it until I started talking to you about just, you know, 18 strong and, and getting some handicapping through.
Speaker A:So we have the 18 strong golf club where a lot of our guys that play in our Friday morning deal, the, the Friday loop, are all members of the 18 strong golf club.
Speaker A:And it's kind of cool to see them in some of the tournaments that you guys have.
Speaker A:And it'll say, you know, like, next to their name, they're part of the 18 strong golf club.
Speaker A:But I think a lot of listeners may not realize that, how easy it is, first of all to establish a handicap.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And we've run into this a couple of times now because I, I didn't keep a handicap until, I don't know, probably five, maybe six years ago or so.
Speaker A:But, you know, we just did this Ryder cup with a bunch of my college buddies in Oklahoma a couple weeks ago, and half of these guys still don't have handicaps.
Speaker A:Some of them even play a decent amount of golf, but they just have never kept one.
Speaker A:Yeah, and it's amazing to me because, well, first, it's amazing that we haven't switched it over to force them to get a handicap, which I think we're doing next year because we got waxed this year and it was a handicapping issue.
Speaker A:But I think that people are sometimes intimidated by, oh, I'm not, I don't play that much golf.
Speaker A:I'm not a serious golfer.
Speaker A:I don't need a handicap.
Speaker A:But what it's done for us has been so cool for the Friday morning loop or for the Friday loop, because we can go out and play like myself and Justin.
Speaker A:Brian can go play and we can, you know, we can play against each other and it's the coolest thing ever.
Speaker A:I can go play with my dad, I can go play with my son, even though he's starting to get a lower handicap than I have.
Speaker A:But like, so speak to that a little bit if you could, the benefits of having a handicap and what it really does for you as a golfer and that you don't have to be a high level, competitive playing player.
Speaker C:No, well, you, that's the, the, the reason.
Speaker C:The, the sole purpose for the handicap is so that everybody can compete regardless of your, of the level that you're at.
Speaker C:As you mentioned, just Justin's a, he's a plus five or even plus six, you know, which is, that's, that's very good.
Speaker C:But then the highest handicap is a 54 for men or women.
Speaker C:You can have a 54.0 handicap index.
Speaker C:And now in, in all reality, a 54 handicapper from, you know, from ball and golf club should, should be able to go and compete against Justin, you know, and play against each other.
Speaker C:Now, most people would say, well, that's, that's insane and that's crazy.
Speaker C:But that's, that's the reason why.
Speaker C:That's why we have the handicap system and the handicap service.
Speaker C:And the other reason is from a personal level, measures your, you know, whether you're getting better or getting worse.
Speaker C:I mean, I, My, my index has fluctuated up and down one or two points each way this, this summer, the, the little that I play.
Speaker C:But, you know, I've seen it go.
Speaker C:I mean, I was.
Speaker C:I, I think right now I'm at a. I'm back up to almost a 12.
Speaker C:I was down to a 10.4 at one point, but, you know, I went out and stunk it up for two or three rounds, and now I'm back up.
Speaker C:So that's, you know, that's the real, that's the real reason for the handicap is the, is for all the.
Speaker C:For to, you know, measure your ability and be able to compete against anybody at any level.
Speaker C:I think even.
Speaker C:I saw an interview with Scotty Scheffler this year, and he talked about that.
Speaker C:We're back at his club in Texas when he's at home, you know, he's like, I, I go out and play with the guys that are 15 and 16 handicap.
Speaker C:You know, he has a handicap, yes, he's a.
Speaker C:The number one player in the world, but he keeps the handicap because that allows him to go back home.
Speaker C:And, you know, he's probably, you know, Justin's a plus five or six.
Speaker C:You know, Scott's probably that or plus eight or something.
Speaker C:You know, something crazy.
Speaker C:But that's what allows him to do that.
Speaker C:He can go have a nice little game with his.
Speaker C:With his buddies back at his home club because of the handicap system.
Speaker C:So that's.
Speaker C:Those are really the, Those are the reasons why we, why we have it and why they've been in place for, you know, the handicap system has been around for, you know, a long time.
Speaker C:Is it perfect?
Speaker C:No, I mean, we, we get that all the time.
Speaker C:It's not.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:It's not perfect, but I think it works.
Speaker C:I think it works pretty darn well, though.
Speaker A:And what are the, the stipulations to actually establish a handicap?
Speaker A:Because it was way lower than.
Speaker A:Way less than I expected when I had to go through that course and learn about it?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, no, it's.
Speaker C:Well, it's changed in 23.
Speaker C:Used to have to have, you have to have five rounds or you had to get 10 rounds to do it.
Speaker C:Now you just have to have 54 holes.
Speaker C:So basically three rounds, but it can be combination.
Speaker C:You can go play, you know, six, nine hole rounds, but once you get to the 54 holes, then you're a handicap rule established and then it just, it changes.
Speaker C:You know, the more you play, the more kind of data you have, the more accurate it gets.
Speaker C:Because it doesn't use the handicap system looks at your last 20 rounds that you played, but it only uses the low eight out of those 20 rounds to establish your handicap.
Speaker C:And it's not the low age scores, it's a, I mean, I don't want to get in the weeds on the calculation anything, but it's a low weight.
Speaker C:Every time you play, your score creates what's called a differential based on the course of slope rating and all that.
Speaker C:That, that's all tied into the handicap system.
Speaker C:But so it's a low eight.
Speaker C:Differentials is what's used when it calculates your, your index.
Speaker C:So yeah, it's, so it's a lot easier.
Speaker C:And that was, that was a, the purpose of that was to, to make it easier, you know, so, so people could go out and do it.
Speaker C:The other big, the other big, huge change they did was now handicaps update every night.
Speaker C:So when you go out and play, your, your index will update the next morning.
Speaker C:Whereas back when I got into this, probably for the first 10 or, gosh, probably 10 or 15 years, index is only updated on the 1st and 15th of the month.
Speaker C:So you know, you had to play a bunch of rounds and you had to wait and you know, you only got twice updated.
Speaker C:But now it's instant almost, you know, it's every night while you're selling logs, your, your handicaps getting updated and next morning you get in, get that notification on your phone that your handicap's been adjusted and you're ready to go for the next step.
Speaker A:It made all the difference in the world when we started making guys that came out for tfl.
Speaker A:For those of you that don't know what TFL is, that's, we call that the Friday loop and that's at Ruth park, little muni course, nine holes here in St. Louis that we do every Friday morning during the summertime.
Speaker A:And we started making everybody get a handicap if they didn't have one or if they were the first time out, they, you know, they could come out and see what it was all about.
Speaker A:But if they Wanted to come back, they had to start establishing one.
Speaker A:And then we created this whole, you know, chase for the Buckle series and you helped us with golf genius to set that up.
Speaker A:And it just completely changed the whole landscape of it.
Speaker A:Guys wanted to get it to get in every single week.
Speaker A:We had five tee times going every single Friday morning.
Speaker A:And it just made it that much more enjoyable because you could go play with anybody.
Speaker A:You'd have, we pick four random guys to go play with and you can just kind of go and tee it up with anybody and, and then we're playing for points and, and that allowed us to do that.
Speaker A:We wouldn't be able to do that without.
Speaker A:And then also the big thing is, is being able to record the nine hole rounds, which I don't think a lot of people realize you can do that too, is that you can go and play nine holes.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:I can.
Speaker A:You play more than nine holes but not a total 18 and still record those.
Speaker A:How does that work?
Speaker C:Yeah, you're right.
Speaker C:You, yeah, you have to play at least nine.
Speaker C:But yeah, if you play 10 or more you can, if you just get through 12 holes, you can still post that score.
Speaker C:That was a change two years ago where the, the system will actually kind of calculate.
Speaker C:It comes up with a, with a differential for those 12 holes that you played.
Speaker C:But that score is good.
Speaker C:Whereas before then, before you had to play, you had to play at least seven holes, supposed to nine hole score and then you had to play at least 14 holes to post an 18 year old score.
Speaker C:But now you have to play nine to post nine and then the nine hole scores count.
Speaker C:That's also a huge difference.
Speaker C:Whereas in the past and under the old system, the previous system, our previous rules, I guess I should say you had to play nine, then you had to wait and post another nine hole score and then it would combine it to create an 18 hole handicap.
Speaker C:Well, they, they basically said that that really wasn't equal, really equitable because you know, you could, you could have a really good nine and then that was all you're gonna play.
Speaker C:You know, maybe you're playing the nine hole league.
Speaker C:You got a really good nine going, but then you go out and shoot a million for nine holes and now you're combining those to create this kind of artificial, you know, number.
Speaker C:So they adjusted it and made, you know, creating the system where now just the nine holes you're playing and it kind of, it takes a look the nine that you're playing and then it'll, it kind of creates another nine Based on the way you're playing, it's going to say, well, you had a good day going.
Speaker C:You know, we're, we're going to kind of assume you're going to keep that going for another nine and then it, it kind of creates a, creates that 18 hole score for you to, to post instead of creating that kind of artificial, you know, combine the two knives.
Speaker C:So, but yeah, you can, yeah, you can go out and you've used, you know, you say you're playing and you know, it starts pouring on you after 12 holes and you got to pack it in.
Speaker C:You can post those 12 holes, you know, hole by hole and you're good.
Speaker C:And it'll, it'll tell you on your record, it'll say, you know, I shot, you know, I shot 60 with a little parentheses with 14 on it or something.
Speaker C:You know that you want to play 14 holes.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But yeah, just great.
Speaker C:I think really good changes to the system.
Speaker C:Again, it was all about, we wanted to, wanted to make it easier for people to do it because you know, maybe you're just getting into the game and you know, 18 holes is a lot.
Speaker C:You know, it's, it's, it's, it's.
Speaker C:But you, you can play nine.
Speaker C:That's, that's easy.
Speaker C:But okay, now I'm working up to, I can play 12, 13 holes and you know, you just, you can post those and, and you're, you're, you're good to go.
Speaker C:So yeah, they were just trying to make it more inclusive.
Speaker C:That was their big thing about, you know, getting, making it more inclusive and getting, getting people, you know, into the game to post scores and create that handicap.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know for myself it's, it's way easier to get out and play nine holes.
Speaker A:You know, 18 holes can be daunting sometimes and you just don't have the time to go do that on a. Yep.
Speaker A:Saturday or Sunday morning if you have kids.
Speaker A:And it just made it a lot easier to do that.
Speaker A:And then also a big note is when you can post each hole individually because that can really impact.
Speaker A:The app is actually awesome because it'll go in and it'll kind of adjust.
Speaker A:Say you have a blow up hole and you have a quad, but you're not really supposed to take a quad on that.
Speaker A:It'll adjust it for you and then you can also keep track of your stats and everything.
Speaker A:It's, it's just really cool.
Speaker A:And they've simplified it over the years, I've noticed.
Speaker C:Oh yeah, no, and the app continues to get Better.
Speaker C:I mean, I know we had an app and it was kind of archaic, to be honest with you.
Speaker C:I mean, but it's definitely gotten better with the features you just mentioned, you know, the stat tracking, which is huge.
Speaker C:You know, now there's GPS right on the app too.
Speaker C:You can use.
Speaker C:And it's all free.
Speaker C:That part's all free.
Speaker C:There is there.
Speaker C:You can upgrade your app and get the green reading material and stuff like that, you know, if you're, if you're into that.
Speaker C:But just, you know, the free version itself is pretty darn good.
Speaker C:And even now there's, even, there's games on there and stuff like that you can set up.
Speaker C:You know, you and I go out and play, you know, I can plug you in as a, you know, in a match.
Speaker C:It's a handicap match and it takes care of that and all that stuff.
Speaker C:So there's all kinds of.
Speaker C:And I think it's just going to keep getting better there.
Speaker C:The USGA is investing, you know, a lot into, into the service and to make sure it stays on top of, you know, stays, stays up there.
Speaker C:Because the numbers are growing.
Speaker C:I mean, our membership's growing and you know, they're, they're trying to get more people into, into using it.
Speaker C:So they're going to make sure that the, that app stays state of the art.
Speaker A:Yeah, I haven't, haven't played around with any of the games in there.
Speaker A:That's, that's cool.
Speaker A:I have to check that out.
Speaker A:And we'll be right back.
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Speaker A:Rules.
Speaker A:So you obviously are rules expert.
Speaker A:You, you constantly are doing the ruling out at these big events and everything.
Speaker A:But as far as the, the regular golfers.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:What would you say are some of the, the most misunderstood rules?
Speaker A:Like if we're just going out on Friday morning or we're going to play around over at Annbraer on a, on a Saturday and we got a little game going.
Speaker A:What are some of the rules that many regular golfers don't quite know the real specifics of?
Speaker C:You know, I, I was thinking about after you teed me up earlier today about that and I probably the, the one that is still, and this is at all levels, Jeff, I, I mean, I hear it, it could be, you know, U.S. amateur qualifying, where you're expecting.
Speaker C:These are the guys that, you know, they're good players, they're, they're understanding it.
Speaker C:But the one term we hear a lot out there on the courses is the ball flight.
Speaker C:You know, the flight of the ball.
Speaker C:The ball, you know, flight, flight path or anything like that.
Speaker C:For a ball that's going into, say it's going into a penalty area used to be called a hazard.
Speaker C:Now it's penalty area, you know, a lake and where you can drop that, take your penalty shot and drop, you know, a lot of them say, well, the, the flight of the ball was here, you know, I can drop anywhere on that line.
Speaker C:Well, that's, that's not the case.
Speaker C:And we hear that, you know, you hear it from all levels of golfers.
Speaker C:So I think that's probably one of the most misused, misunderstood, you know, things in the rules that you're not going to find ball flight or anything like that in the rules of golf.
Speaker C:So I think that's one of the most misunderstood terms or, you know, our rulings out there.
Speaker C:But even things like.
Speaker C:It's funny, I was driving back to get ready for this and with one of my guys at the amateur series and I called him about Something else.
Speaker C:But I.
Speaker C:One of the guys out there called me about one ruling, and then I was calling back to another guy to make sure he.
Speaker C:Because he's out there, one of my lead officials out there.
Speaker C:And he answered, he's like, call you right back.
Speaker C:And they call me right back.
Speaker C:And, you know, he was.
Speaker C:He was just walking the player through carpet relief.
Speaker C:You know, that guy had a ball in the car bath.
Speaker C:And, you know, making sure you get in the right spot, because that's another one that, you know.
Speaker C:You know, some people think you can go to any side of the car path, you know, just which is the better spot to go to.
Speaker C:That's where I'm going to go.
Speaker C:But, you know, there's.
Speaker C:There's specific, you know, directions and distances and all, you know, all those type of things.
Speaker C:So that's another one that I think that gets.
Speaker C:Get a lot of questions about.
Speaker A:So can you break down the first example that you were given?
Speaker A:Like, you hit a ball and, you know, you're talking about the flight path into the water or whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's the right way to do it?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So for, you know, say it's a.
Speaker C:We're hitting it into the lake.
Speaker C:So it's penalty area.
Speaker C:It's probably marked red.
Speaker C:Red.
Speaker C:You've got basically three options.
Speaker C:One, you can play where you last played from.
Speaker C:You always have that option.
Speaker C:So you go back, you know, if you played from the T, you can go back under one penalty stroke, go back, play from the T. Your second option, I'm sorry, your first option, obviously is just go play it.
Speaker C:You know, it could be penalty area, but if you see it, you can go in there and play it, you know, no problem.
Speaker C:Second option, you go back to T. And then third on a red penalty area is where the ball last cross the penalty area.
Speaker C:You know, the line, you know, like.
Speaker C:Like for tomorrow, we've got all penalty areas marked out at.
Speaker C:For steel.
Speaker C:So we have red paint.
Speaker C:A lot of courses you go to.
Speaker C:You're not going to, you know, they're.
Speaker C:They're not painting all the time to keep the, you know, the penalty areas.
Speaker C:But so you kind of determine where that line is, you know, and actually it's in the rules where if you have an area like that that, you know, there might be red stakes, but there's no line.
Speaker C:You kind of use the point where the.
Speaker C:In the ground, where the ground breaks down in, you know, into the water.
Speaker C:So it might be five or six feet up the bank.
Speaker C:They're not expecting you to go down Right to the edge of the water.
Speaker C:You know, get you up there on a flat spot.
Speaker C:There's your, there's your, there's your spot.
Speaker C:You know, where did it cross?
Speaker C:You get two club lengths from there.
Speaker C:No closer to the hole.
Speaker C:And then you can drop a ball within those, you know, those two club lengths.
Speaker C:So that's, yeah, that's the one where you hear, you know, the players like, well, the, you know, the flight of the ball was here.
Speaker C:It was a big old slice and, you know, I hit it and it's going right, and, you know, they want to go drop it somewhere on that, on that line.
Speaker C:But that's, you know, that's not allowed under the, under the rules.
Speaker A:And then give me the difference between yellow stakes and red stakes.
Speaker C:Yeah, so, yeah, you have yellow and red penalty areas.
Speaker C:You know, a lot of courses now are pretty much marking everything red just from an ease standpoint.
Speaker C:And I would say I've even probably got a little more relaxed on that.
Speaker C:The difference is if you have a yellow penalty area.
Speaker C:So from, from an example standpoint for the listeners, you know, I'll use 17 at Sawgrass.
Speaker C:If everybody knows TPC Scott and the, the island green, that's marked, that's marked yellow.
Speaker C:The way I explain to people is, you know, when Mr. Dye designed Sawgrass, he designed that whole 17 to be negotiated with a, with the talent stroke, with a golf shot.
Speaker C:And that's why.
Speaker C:So it's marked yellow.
Speaker C:Now, you see, you see in the.
Speaker C:What, the Tour Championship or not Tour Championship, Players Championship, when a player hits it, you know, they hit it in there, they might land it on the green, they roll out the back, but it's all yellow all the way around there.
Speaker C:They have, they can't.
Speaker C:They're not going back there and dropping two club lengths.
Speaker C:Those option is.
Speaker C:That option's gone if it's a yellow penalty area.
Speaker C:So there you have to go where it last crossed.
Speaker C:In that case, if it went off the back, they could go to the far back over where the gallery or, you know, the spectators are.
Speaker C:You have to go where that flake stick where last cross.
Speaker C:And you can go on a line as far as you want to go and drop on there.
Speaker C:In that instance, they, they use an additional option, a drop zone, which we use a lot of times with those.
Speaker C:I would do the same is you find a specific spot.
Speaker C:It's called the drop zone.
Speaker C:And for the penalty shot, you allow you to drop it in there.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But that's what it changes, you know, 12 of the Gusta another one that's, you know, marked yellow.
Speaker C:Just think if that thing was marked red and all those balls of Augusta, if it's marked red and the guy hit on the other side of the bank and it rolls back in.
Speaker C:Well, now, you know, now they're dropping on the green side of that, you know, green side of Raised Creek.
Speaker C:So those are the types of things that, that's what you got to think about on when you're marking or, you know, marking whether it's yellow, yellow or red.
Speaker C:You know, so like in the player's image, if it was, if that if they would decide the Tour decide to mark that red.
Speaker C:A guy hits one long, bounces long.
Speaker C:Say it's Sunday, they got the back right hole location and he sliced one and hits to the right of the hole and it's marked red.
Speaker C:Now he gets two club lengths.
Speaker C:He's basically dropping right there on the.
Speaker C:And he's got it for par instead of having to go back and try to.
Speaker C:Freddie couples it into the, you know, from the T for a par.
Speaker C:So that's really the reason.
Speaker C:That's, that's why, that's why you add the, the two options on the.
Speaker C:On vice and vice versa.
Speaker C:That's why you wouldn't mark like the 18th of Pebble beach yellow because there, there's, you know, if you had, if you knocked it in there, left of the 18 green and you found the flag stick and where it last crossed, well, where are you dropping, you know, Hawaii, Japan.
Speaker C:I don't know where the next land mass is out there.
Speaker C:So that's why, you know, that's why you, you mark, you know, like that, you know, red to give the additional options.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Jordan Spieth wishes Race Creek was, was marked red after that.
Speaker A:That one he dunked in.
Speaker A:So when all of the season ends for you, you're done with the four ball championship and the last couple things, how relieved are you to like, just be able to chill and not have to organize all of this stuff?
Speaker A:Because I know you and I, we've been on some golf trips together and you've been nice enough to set up the golf genius.
Speaker A:But it's like, let's let Kurt take a break.
Speaker A:He doesn't need to organize anything else.
Speaker A:You're a wizard with golf genius.
Speaker A:But I know it's got to feel good to just kind of sit back and go play.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, it is, it does.
Speaker C:You know, I.
Speaker C:And it seems like guys, after 25 years, it seemed like every year goes faster.
Speaker C:I mean, you know, I Feel like it's.
Speaker C:I feel like I just had, you know, Women's Open qualifying on April 29th or whatever it was, and now here I am, October 14th, and.
Speaker C:And, you know, we're wrapping up a season.
Speaker C:But yeah, it's, you know, this year was, it was a good year.
Speaker C:You know, we had, we had a really good year.
Speaker C:Events went well, championships went well.
Speaker C:You know, I had a great group of interns.
Speaker C:I guess maybe that helps out a lot when you got, you know, some good, good staff.
Speaker C:So that was, that was very positive.
Speaker C:But yeah, it's, it's nice to sit back and, you know, but it, the, the work doesn't stop.
Speaker C:You know, everybody thinks, well, terms are over.
Speaker C:You know, I'm, That's.
Speaker C:I'm sitting around Twilight thumbs for the next, you know, four months.
Speaker C:Well, you know, I, I started on 20, 26 probably three months ago, you know, starting to look at courses and asking courses for.
Speaker C:To host and, you know, when you have a schedule like ours, you know, we, these, these clubs have to, you know, we got to ask these clubs to host these and, and come back and, and all that.
Speaker C:So, you know, that's, that's already started.
Speaker C:And thankfully, you know, I've got, I've got a lot of it done, but I still got.
Speaker C:Still got some more to go to, you know, over these next.
Speaker C:You know, I try to have everything that all done by the.
Speaker C:By December 31st to kind of roll it out, you know, beginning of the year, so it doesn't stop.
Speaker C:It's a, It's a constant.
Speaker C:It's a constant, constant battle.
Speaker C:So plus, you know, there's just other things, you know, things.
Speaker C:The last couple of years we've done.
Speaker C:We've done a rules.
Speaker C:You know, talk about the rules of golf.
Speaker C:We do a rule series starting in December on.
Speaker C:I mean, last couple years, we've done it on Wednesday afternoons out at Baldwin, and it's really for my rules committee, but it's.
Speaker C:It's every Wednesday for about 10 weeks that we get together, go over some rules.
Speaker C:A lot of it's preparing for.
Speaker C:A number of us will go to rules workshop in the spring.
Speaker C:So it's, you know, preparing them to go to rules to rule school.
Speaker C:Thankfully, we actually have one coming to St. Louis this year.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So we, you know, hopefully a lot of our guys will go to that when it's here.
Speaker C:So there's, there's that.
Speaker C:There's, you know, we have our player of the year banquet coming up.
Speaker C:You know, that's in November, November 12th you know, seemed like.
Speaker C:That seemed like a long, long ways away a while ago, and now it's, you know, less than a month away.
Speaker C:You know, that we'll recognize our players a year and our champions and all that stuff.
Speaker C:So I am actually taking a little break.
Speaker C:I am in here.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:It's today's October 14th.
Speaker C:I'm actually headed to Hawaii for a week here next week.
Speaker C:So a little break, little work.
Speaker C:I'm going over to help with a.
Speaker C:With a college tournament over there, the University of Hawaii women's event.
Speaker C:But I'm gonna have some fun too, though, so get to play a little golf over there.
Speaker C:I've never been to Hawaii, so I'm excited about that.
Speaker C:But yeah, there'll be some other.
Speaker C:Some other.
Speaker C:Some other travel this winter hopefully.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:What.
Speaker A:What part of Hawaii you going to?
Speaker C:Hawaii.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, never been.
Speaker A:We went.
Speaker A:We went to Maui for spring break last year and, man, I just.
Speaker A:I didn't want to come home.
Speaker A:You know, like a lot of vacations, you go and you're there for a while and you're like, all right, I'm ready to come back.
Speaker A:It was just so.
Speaker A:Such a great trip.
Speaker A:Such a cool place.
Speaker A:You'll.
Speaker A:You're gonna love it.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I get to.
Speaker C:I got asked to go over by Mary B. Porter King.
Speaker C:If that's a name that rings bell with anybody.
Speaker C:She's a. Mary B.
Speaker C:Is awesome.
Speaker C:She's.
Speaker C:She's.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:So we do the golf association does some work with the Ladies National Golf Association.
Speaker C:It's called.
Speaker C:Used to be the Women's Trans.
Speaker C:Trans Mississippi Association.
Speaker C:Years ago they trans.
Speaker C:They're now ladies national, but we're like their admin body and Mary Visa.
Speaker C:She's a four sport.
Speaker C:She's a four sport hall of famer at Arizona State University.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:Tells you.
Speaker C:Yeah, she's incredible.
Speaker C:Spent time on.
Speaker C:Played in the LPGA Tour.
Speaker C:She was on the PGA of America board and the USGA executive committee.
Speaker C:So she's.
Speaker C:She's very well traveled, very well respected lady in the.
Speaker C:In the world of golf.
Speaker C:And yeah, she lives on Kauai.
Speaker C:And when I was up in Seattle with the Ladies national, she, she.
Speaker C:I was trying to hustle out to get.
Speaker C:Catch a flight to come home.
Speaker C:She goes, what are you doing?
Speaker C:October 20th, 22nd.
Speaker C:I'm like, I don't know why.
Speaker C:She goes, you want to come over and help?
Speaker C:Help me kind of help me run this little.
Speaker C:This University of Hawaii women's bed on Kauai.
Speaker C:So she lives on Kauai So.
Speaker C:So yeah, I'm excited to, to get over there and, and, you know, just, yeah, just get over there.
Speaker C:Like I said, I've never, never been over to Hawaii, so it should be fun.
Speaker A:Do you know you're going to play over there, right?
Speaker A:Do you know what course you're going to play?
Speaker C:I'm probably.
Speaker C:So she's at.
Speaker C:I always butcher this name.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:She lives on in this, in the, in the golfers community kind of down Poipu Bay, I think it is.
Speaker C:It's kind of.
Speaker C:Kind of.
Speaker A:Oh, it's.
Speaker C:Any.
Speaker A:Any of the names over there are impossible.
Speaker C:All I know is it's supposed, it's supposed to be very good.
Speaker C:It's supposed to be one of the top courses in Hawaii.
Speaker C:It's her club.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Staying there yet?
Speaker C:I'm staying in her guest house at her.
Speaker C:At her house.
Speaker C:So the, the tournament, the, the college event is at the Marriott course right there on Kauai.
Speaker C:It's literally like runs next to the airport, runs the Runway.
Speaker C:So I talked to a couple people, says very good that they, they played it.
Speaker C:So but yeah, that's for.
Speaker C:So, yeah, the hope.
Speaker C:Unless.
Speaker C:Unless she has some plans to go play somewhere else.
Speaker C:But that's right now get a couple rounds on.
Speaker C:On her club there.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Sounds awesome.
Speaker A:And then you guys have, you have another huge project that we.
Speaker A:I can't believe it's taken us this long to even bring this up.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But out at Normandy, you have an amazing renovation going on that, that you guys are helping spearhead.
Speaker A:Give us some details on what's going on out there and who's involved.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, I, I appreciate you bringing it up.
Speaker C:You know, Normandy, the Normandy Golf course and Normandy reimagined is kind of our tagline.
Speaker C:And it's been a long, it's been a long process.
Speaker C:It started almost seven, eight years ago.
Speaker C:I won't get into the weeds on that.
Speaker C:But so our foundation, we, you know, I mentioned the Metropolitan Amateur Golf Association.
Speaker C:Well, the association has a philanthropic arm, the Metropolitan Golf foundation, and really the foundation is what got involved.
Speaker C:And, and I'm involved on the foundation as well.
Speaker C:Actually.
Speaker C:I sit on the board of the foundation, whereas I, I work for the association, but I sit on the board of the foundation.
Speaker C:But we, we got involved a number of years ago.
Speaker C:Tom got involved, and finally it's come, you know, come to fruition.
Speaker C:And just, just almost a year ago, we broke ground on, on the renovation.
Speaker C:You know, we, we have Jack Nicklaus doing the, the renovation work, and it's going to be a Jack Nicklaus signature golf course.
Speaker C:And while we sit here and we can talk about how good the golf course is going to be, the real story behind is it's not about a golf course.
Speaker C:It's about everything we're trying to do to save this asset in, in a, you know, somewhat depressed community in north St. Louis County.
Speaker C:You know, we're going to have.
Speaker C:First Tee is going to be heavily involved.
Speaker C:It's going to be their flagship program site.
Speaker C:We, the Western Golf association and the Evans Scholarship program is heavily involved.
Speaker C:They've.
Speaker C:They committed.
Speaker C:When we first announced this, they committed years ago.
Speaker C:Is.
Speaker C:And we're gonna.
Speaker C:So there's gonna be a caddy program.
Speaker C:You know, it's gonna be the only public golf course in St. Louis for the caddy program, and it will cost the golfers nothing.
Speaker C:The, the caddy fees are all going to be covered by the Western Golf Association.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:So you, you go up there?
Speaker C:Yeah, you know, you go up there.
Speaker C:The guys go up there and play golf.
Speaker C:They can, if there's caddies available, take a caddy.
Speaker C:The caddy.
Speaker C:The caddy fee is covered.
Speaker C:All we're asking is the players to, you know, spend four, four and young man or woman and, you know, give them a nice tip at the end.
Speaker C:But the fee itself is, is covered by the Western Golf Association.
Speaker C:You know, our hopes are, you know, the Evans Scholarship program is.
Speaker C:I, I think it's one of the greatest scholarship programs in the country.
Speaker C:You know, it provides kids full ride scholarships to.
Speaker C:I don't know whether it's 24, 25, 26 universities around the country, but most importantly is the one down the road here in Columbia.
Speaker C:You know, there's Evan Scholar House and there's a. I think this past year there's like 20, 24 beds that are being used by Don St. Louis, you know, students, by kids from Chicago.
Speaker C:You know, we want to, we want to get More kids from St. Louis involved in this.
Speaker C:And we feel like this is the way we do it.
Speaker C:I mean, there may be nothing greater and you know, it's going to take a couple years, but two or three years we can say we got two or three Evan Scholars, you know, coming out of the Normandy School District, you know, that are Evan Scholars going to, you know, going to University of Missouri Columbia.
Speaker C:And it's, it's not costing anything.
Speaker C:It's fully taken care of.
Speaker C:So, so that's a big aspect of the project, you know, youth on course, which obviously you supported, you know, this last week.
Speaker C:I still got People asking me if my feet are still hurting.
Speaker C:But you know, it's, it's, you know, you thought course is gonna be heavily involved in Normandy.
Speaker C:So anyway, that's, that's the key.
Speaker C:It's all about, it's.
Speaker C:Yes, yes.
Speaker C:We're renovating golf course.
Speaker C:It's going to be a fantastic golf course.
Speaker C:I, I guess I'm biased, but I'm, it's, it's going to be one of, if not the best public golf course in the area.
Speaker C:I mean, I think, you know, you can go up there now and see it.
Speaker C:In fact, when I get done with here, I'm actually going to meet a guy.
Speaker C:I'm actually going to meet one of our golf genius guys who's in town meeting clubs.
Speaker C:He called me and said, I'm reading about what you're doing.
Speaker C:I want, can I come see it?
Speaker C:So I'm going to go up there and take him for a little tour this afternoon yet, you know, he.
Speaker C:So anyway, it's, the golf course is just really, it's going to be really good.
Speaker C:And you know, Jack's doing all this for, for nothing.
Speaker C:You know, he waived his fee to, to do this renovation project with us.
Speaker C:And, and it's.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And you know, we've got a long ways to go and our goal right now is we're going to have 11 or 12 holes completed, you know, this year.
Speaker C:You know, we just got behind.
Speaker C:The spring was terrible for building the golf course with all the rain.
Speaker C:So we're trying to get 11 or 12 holes done where we can have hopefully a nine hole loop.
Speaker C:It might not be front nine or back nine, you know, for next year and the practice range done so we can start this programming.
Speaker C:You know, we, we've, we've, we've raised a lot of money.
Speaker C:We've raised almost $9 million plus we got a large, you know, loan and low, low loan.
Speaker C:And I can say we're, we're in.
Speaker C:Hopefully in the next month we can make a pretty exciting announcement about a, about a, another company in town that's going to be making a significant, significant contribution to the project.
Speaker C:We just can't say who yet.
Speaker C:But hopefully by the first November we're going to be able to make that announcement.
Speaker C:And that's, I think it's, it's going to be a game changer.
Speaker C:I think in, in the future of this project.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker C:A lot of exciting stuff.
Speaker C:It's been exciting to be a part of.
Speaker C:You know, I was more involved.
Speaker C:I've kind of pulled Back a little bit because we did hire a young man or young.
Speaker C:I say young man.
Speaker C:I'm old enough.
Speaker C:But Walker Hill is our.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker C:He's our executive director of the foundation now.
Speaker C:And he.
Speaker C:So he's taken a lot of that off my plate, which has been kind of nice.
Speaker C:But he, he's very involved.
Speaker C:But, you know, it's.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's a, it's going to be really, it's going to be special place and it's been exciting to see, to see it come to fruition after all these years.
Speaker A:Is there a place that people can go if they want to contribute to it or.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So normdreimagined.com so that has its own, own website, own web web page.
Speaker C:You can get to it from our, from the Method web page as well.
Speaker C:But it does have its own page.
Speaker C:There's a, there's a donation button on there.
Speaker C:There's a place to reach out to people.
Speaker C:All of our, everything that you can see, you know, we've been diligent about posting videos and I'm getting dangerously good at flying a drone and getting up there, taking drone, you know, drone shots of the progress.
Speaker C:And we get, you know, we post a lot of that content we've got.
Speaker C:Joe Walker is actually working for us right now.
Speaker C:He's a retired superintendent from Glen Echo last year, and he came over and he wanted to help and he's probably almost working full time with us, but, you know, helping with the growing.
Speaker C:But he, Joe's really good at content as well.
Speaker C:He takes a lot of pictures and videos and he posts it.
Speaker C:So then I'm reposting, you know, his stuff almost daily.
Speaker C:I've actually started, I kind of started a hashtag today from Normandy by Joe Walker, you know, because, you know, he'll, he'll send something else almost every day, but that usually goes on.
Speaker C:You can follow on our, on our, the, the Metro Golf Foundation, Instagram or the Metropolitan Golf Association.
Speaker C:You know, we're, we're trying to keep that updated, you know, almost, almost daily with something, some kind of content just showing, showing the progress.
Speaker C:The last thing is just go take a drive by.
Speaker C:Just go.
Speaker C:I mean, all the holes that are done are all right on Normandy Drive.
Speaker C:So, you know, you take that to drive from the Rock Road up Normandy Drive past Incarnate Word.
Speaker C:I mean, it's all green and, and looking fantastic.
Speaker C:You know, we got greens are seeded and I mean, some of these greens have been mowed four or five, six times already.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And I think they were, they Were hoping to maybe possibly seed a couple more today.
Speaker C:So, so yeah, I think that's, that's the best thing you do.
Speaker C:Just go drive by and see it for yourself.
Speaker C:It's, it's, it's an.
Speaker C:It's exciting and then the neighborhood's excited too.
Speaker C:That's the other cool part.
Speaker C:You know, the.
Speaker C:We have.
Speaker C:The golf course actually sits in Bel Nor.
Speaker C:Greendale is to the east, right across Normandy Drive.
Speaker C:So you kind of got two municipalities that are that border, you know, border the course.
Speaker C:And both of them are over the top excited about this, you know, that what we're doing up there.
Speaker C:And that's, that's gonna be good.
Speaker C:And additionally the, the golf association, back to this.
Speaker C:We've actually bought the house across the street from the 18th hole.
Speaker C:And so our, our plan is to, that'll be our future.
Speaker C:The future offices of the golf association are going to be right there at the, at the golf course as well.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, we did that in I guess March or March or March or April somewhere.
Speaker C:Yeah, we, we, that house became available and sits on a half acre lot.
Speaker C:So pretty good sized lot.
Speaker C:So we got room.
Speaker C:Right now it's the construction house because there's no, no, no buildings on the site.
Speaker C:So, so their construction's, you know, using it.
Speaker C:But someday our, our hopes are to kind of build Golf House St. Louis up there, you know, across the street from, from Normandy.
Speaker A:So that's awesome.
Speaker A:I, I actually drove by just recently.
Speaker A:I was going to a cross country meet for my daughter and didn't really realize I was going to pass by it.
Speaker A:We were going up to St. Vincent's park and all of a sudden I turned the corner and you know, all these, the grass is green and I'm like, whoa, wait a second.
Speaker A:I had to kind of reorient myself for a second.
Speaker A:It's like, oh my gosh.
Speaker A:I could, I couldn't believe how much progress had been made in that area and it was really, really cool to see.
Speaker A:I assume you've spent a little bit of time with Jack.
Speaker A:What was it like getting to spend a little time with him and, and kind of go through the property?
Speaker C:Yeah, I have.
Speaker C:He's.
Speaker C:He's been on site four times and three of those four times I've had the opportunity to spend the day with him and you know, go around with him ever, you know, since his initial visit, gosh, four years ago, I guess it's been up until he was just here during, well, during the Steeple Classic is when he was back his last visit.
Speaker C:And he's, he's.
Speaker C:He's incredible.
Speaker C:I mean, for 85 years old, he is sharp as can be and to drive around there and just remember, you know, what he's, what he's envisioning, you know, seeing, you know, he's not there every, every day.
Speaker C:But it's, but he remembers it.
Speaker C:I mean, he, and he remembers it from the last visit.
Speaker C:He was that, that from the last time he was there.
Speaker C:He remembers what he told Chris.
Speaker C:So his designer, Chris Cochran is our.
Speaker C:The lead designer on the project who's worked for jack for like 40 years.
Speaker C:So he's designed golf courses all over the world, you know, for Jack.
Speaker C:But to listen to their rapport, you know, when they're, you know, sitting in a cart and it's, it was, it.
Speaker C:It's incredible.
Speaker C:It's incredible to.
Speaker C:And, and then at the end of the day, he's just a, he's just a nice guy.
Speaker C:I mean, he's just a humble guy.
Speaker C:You wouldn't, you wouldn't think you're, you know, the last time he was here, I had the opportunity.
Speaker C:I actually picked him up from the airport.
Speaker C:He flew into private, obviously, at Lambert.
Speaker C:I picked him up, brought him the golf course.
Speaker C:We drove around and I took him to.
Speaker C:Back to Norwood for, you know, a function that evening.
Speaker C:But I mean, he was just.
Speaker C:I, you would, you wouldn't think I was in a car, you know, driving Jack Nicklaus around.
Speaker C:It's just I was.
Speaker C:Had this nice old man with me, you know, just talking golf and going on about his best business and he was, he was great.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:Literally had the goat riding around with you in your car, right?
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:It's, it's just so cool to see what you guys are doing, what you've achieved so, so far, and what it's going to turn into.
Speaker A:I'm excited that we can share more of this story with the 18 strong community, because I didn't know quite as much about, you know, the progress that's being, being made and just the caddy stuff is awesome.
Speaker A:I think that's such a cool piece that a lot of guys are going to be very, very excited about hearing as we kind of wrap up.
Speaker A:You know, normally at this point in the show, I, I ask people the.
Speaker A:Our golf confessional question, which is, you know, golf exposes so much out of all of us.
Speaker A:Good, bad, ugly.
Speaker A:And I'm gonna ask that question to you in a second.
Speaker A:But I would imagine that given your position, you've also seen the good, the Bad and the ugly out of other competitors out on the golf course.
Speaker A:I want to know if you have a good story for us of.
Speaker A:And you don't have to name any names obviously, but any.
Speaker A:The craziest thing that you've seen in a competition, maybe the craziest way somebody acted, if anything comes to mind off the top of your head.
Speaker C:Oh, gosh.
Speaker C:I mean there's.
Speaker C:Yeah, there's obviously been a few, few things over the years I've seen whether qualifiers or one one comes to mind.
Speaker C:This was, this is going.
Speaker C:I don't remember what year it was.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:I know it was US Senior Open qualifier and it was that it was out at Belle Reeve.
Speaker C:So we obviously, we had a full field of guys trying to qualify for the Senior Open.
Speaker C:And we had this gentleman who didn't know him, guy was from Chicago, Illinois.
Speaker C:And he shows up and he's literally got like the, the, the Rodney Dangerfield size bag, you know, with.
Speaker C:I don't even think he had 14 clubs and they were hodge podget clubs.
Speaker C:I mean there was a couple tailor made.
Speaker C:There was a persimmon weather.
Speaker C:It was, it was unbelievable.
Speaker C:And that b.
Speaker C:This bag was massive.
Speaker C:What it was is if you remember years ago in like the shops, the tailor made had a big bag that was like purple and it was like a bag like that.
Speaker C:So it's a big leather bag.
Speaker C:So he shows up and he, he didn't have a caddy, so he's got a.
Speaker C:You gotta walk in this thing.
Speaker C:And he thought he could for sure get a caddy from Belle Reeve.
Speaker C:And Belle Reeve didn't have any caddies left.
Speaker C:So this guy, this older gentleman's lugging this bag to start, you know, Senior Open qualifying.
Speaker C:And he, he started on hole 10.
Speaker C:And I remember, I don't know, whatever, whatever time he started.
Speaker C:An hour goes by and we get a call from on the radio.
Speaker C:Is like this gentleman's gonna, he's gonna pack it in.
Speaker C:And we end up finding out he, he goes like.
Speaker C:This was like his scores for 10, 11, 12.
Speaker C:He goes like 12, 11, 14 on those three holes.
Speaker C:And I mean, obviously just had no business being in, you know, in a, in a USG qualifier.
Speaker C:But that was one of the, that was one of the craziest, craziest things I've ever seen.
Speaker C:Gosh, I don't know.
Speaker C:I mean I, I witnessed two holes in ones and it was both times I was out marking golf courses.
Speaker C:You know, I've never seen one while I'm playing.
Speaker C:But yeah, that's that's my, my, my two witnesses to, to seeing a hole in one is because I was walking around with a paint can in my hand, you know, painting penalty areas or hazards back then, one was at the orchards and one was at Wing Haven.
Speaker C:So those were, those were kind of crazy.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker C:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker C:Those are just two that stick out top of my mind.
Speaker C:I'm sure there's, there's probably more.
Speaker C:Over 25 years, you see some, some crazy stuff, but.
Speaker C:And, yeah, and, and good, bad and ugly.
Speaker C:Yeah, I, I've seen it all.
Speaker A:So how about for yourself?
Speaker A:You know, Golf Don't Lie is all about, you know, golf kind of proves and shows us who we are, right.
Speaker A:And, and exposes a lot in us.
Speaker A:So what has the game of golf taught you about yourself over all these years?
Speaker C:Oh, I think just staying humble, Jeff.
Speaker C:I mean, again, as I mentioned earlier, you know, I, I'm, I'm, I'm still just this kid from Dussel, Missouri that nobody knows exists on the map and somehow who, who didn't play the game.
Speaker C:And now I've ended up, you know, in this position for now 25.
Speaker C: Well, since: Speaker C:And I think about the, you know, the places that it's taken me.
Speaker C:You know, I've, I've gotten to travel, do some really cool stuff.
Speaker C:I mean, that's, I, I wouldn't be going to Hawaii this week, you know, maybe.
Speaker C:But I'm reason I'm going is because of.
Speaker C:I've met Mary B. Porter King.
Speaker C:Your listeners might not know him, but know her, but she's literally one of the most incredible women in, In God, in the game of golf, you know, around the world.
Speaker C:Known around the world.
Speaker C:She's.
Speaker C:And, but I've had the opportunity to get to know her and that's why I'm getting to go to Hawaii this week to help with a women's college tournament.
Speaker C:Otherwise, you know, just other things.
Speaker C:I mean, I've gotten to play some really incredible places because of, you know, I'm, because of who I've gotten to meet.
Speaker C:But, and, but I think it's the humble.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:I just, I try to try to stay humble.
Speaker C:Golf is, it's definitely not about me.
Speaker C:You know, where I sit.
Speaker C:This is, this is a service industry and every day I try to provide, you know, we try to provide the best service we can to our golfers, to our clubs, to, to all that.
Speaker C:And that's, that's that's what it's taught me.
Speaker C:You know, it's like people ask me, where'd you go to school to do this?
Speaker C:And I'm like, well, I went to St. Louis University.
Speaker C:But I mean, my school is, you know, where I've learned everything was, was Tom Ool Jr.
Speaker C:I mean, that's, you know, getting to work for him and starting with him.
Speaker C:You know, that's, that's how I learned to.
Speaker C:He built this golf position.
Speaker C:He started it.
Speaker C:I've tried my best to continue, and we're, we're growing it.
Speaker C:I mean, we, we're.
Speaker C:This year we've surpassed, you know, a membership number that I'm not sure we ever maybe thought we would.
Speaker C:And we just keep, we just keep doing it.
Speaker C:And people ask us all the time, you know, how do you do it?
Speaker C:And I always say, I'm going to have a sign on the walls, you know, you got to continue to raise the bar.
Speaker C:And so it's whatever, whatever we did last year, last week at an event, you know, try to make it better this week at this next event.
Speaker C:And so anyway, I don't know if that's the.
Speaker C:But bottom line is just being humble and just knowing that I'm, you know, I'm, I'm just a kid from Dutzel or Washington, Missouri, and I, I've got, you know, I, I've got, I think, one of the best jobs in the city and in this, in this region, and I try to do.
Speaker C:Do the best I can at it every day.
Speaker A:Well, I know that so many of the competitive golfers, Justin Bryant being one of them, just mentions how well prepared he feels when he goes out to other tournaments, you know, going out to the mid.
Speaker A:Aim like he just was, because of the way that you prepare your tournaments and help prepare these guys.
Speaker A:And I know we had your good buddy Roger Null on a couple weeks ago, and much like I said to him, you know, being a greenskeeper seems like a very thankless job.
Speaker A:I'm sure in, in many ways shapes and form.
Speaker A:Your job at times feels very thankless, where it almost probably feels like guys are complaining more about the way you're setting things up as opposed to the fact that you're creating opportunities for them to get out there and compete and do the things they do.
Speaker A:But I just want to say thanks to you from, from our crew because you've done so much for us to help set up the different events and just kind of guide me through some of the, the different ins and outs of, you know, creating this club that we have here and appreciate your friendship and you know we need to get you out on the Friday morning loop a lot more often and and unfortunately you're going to Hawaii so you can't join us on our trip to the Macklemore this week.
Speaker A:And you got some tournaments, but yeah, that's all.
Speaker A:Future golf trips ahead for sure.
Speaker A:But really appreciate you, appreciate you coming on, sharing your story and I'll be talking to you very soon.
Speaker C:Kirk Jeff, I appreciate it.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me and I enjoyed it.
Speaker C:Appreciate it a lot.
Speaker A:Thanks for tuning in to golf don't lie n 18 strong podcast.
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