Episode 2
Ep. 02 (GDL): Dr. Gaston Cordova: Unlocking Inner Excellence in Your Life and Golf
Today’s episode dives into the intricate mental game of golf, featuring Dr. Gaston Cordova, who breaks down the connection between our physical performance on the course and our mental state. The core takeaway here is that mastering your game isn’t just about swing mechanics; it’s also about mastering your mind and body, especially when faced with adversity on the course. We chat about how self-talk and visualization play critical roles in maintaining composure after a bad shot or a tough hole, emphasizing that slowing down our body is essential to calming our racing minds. Plus, we explore techniques like breath control and the power of a positive mindset, illustrating that these practices can transform your performance and overall experience in the game. Whether you’re a weekend warrior or a seasoned pro, the insights shared in this episode will resonate with anyone looking to elevate their golf game and life.
Takeaways:
- Golf is a journey of constant learning and adaptation, reflecting the unpredictable nature of life.
- The mental aspects of golf, including visualization and mindfulness, can significantly enhance performance on the course.
- Preparation is key; both mental and physical readiness paves the way for success in golf and beyond.
- To overcome challenges on the course, it's crucial to calm the body first to settle the mind for better clarity.
- Self-mastery in golf involves recognizing and managing self-talk, especially when under pressure during rounds.
- Embracing a heart-centered approach in golf can lead to improved performance and a more fulfilling experience.
Transcript
The Golf Don't Live podcast is proudly brought to you by our friends over at First Form.
Speaker B:Different paths, different stories.
Speaker C:This, this, this game tells all.
Speaker B:Golf Don't Lie.
Speaker A:What's up, everybody?
Speaker A:And welcome to Golf Don't Lie.
Speaker A:I'm Jeff Pelizaro, and I'm here with my guy, Justin Bryant.
Speaker A:What's up, jb?
Speaker B:Jeff.
Speaker B:You know, we had a little technical difficulties getting this thing off the ground here for this episode, but happy to, you know, start recording with.
Speaker A:You know, you would think that after doing what, 370 episodes of the 18 strong podcast, we would have some of this tech figured out, but it never fails that when you need it to work, the most things are going to happen.
Speaker A:But we're here.
Speaker A:We're ready to roll.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So, yeah, it's.
Speaker A:Nothing's ever easy when you're trying to get a new ball rolling, right?
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:It's just like your golf swing.
Speaker B:You feel good one day, you feel like you figured it out the next day, you feel like you've never, you know, gripped the club before.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Translates to the podcasting world, it turns out, too.
Speaker A:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:And you just described a lot of my golf game as of recent, which I believe, I believe, if the T sheet that I saw is correct, we're teeing up together tomorrow in mgf.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Finally going to get you out there this year.
Speaker B:I know I've.
Speaker B:I think I got out there.
Speaker B:I don't think you were playing, so I think it was like, you know, the preseason, I guess we could call it.
Speaker B:Got out there and played with some of the crew, but it just hasn't worked out so far this year.
Speaker B:So excited to tee it up tomorrow morning.
Speaker B:What time are we going off?
Speaker A:I think, I think 6:20am we'll get the official notice this afternoon.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I think we've got a good crew and there's points to be had.
Speaker A:A couple of top leaders are out of town this week, so we got to sneak some points out of here, buddy.
Speaker A:E's gone, Mossy's gone.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So, yeah, we're chasing the buckle tomorrow, buddy.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Let's get some points.
Speaker A:Let's get some points.
Speaker A:What's new in.
Speaker A:In your golf world?
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What do you have coming up on the, on the radar as far as any competitions and stuff?
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think we still playing, like, the club championship over at St. Louis.
Speaker B:You know, I always have the, the father, son Matches that we, you know, have that are highly contested.
Speaker B:There's a lot on the line.
Speaker B:We're working on those.
Speaker B:I just got my USAM final qualifying, like, site.
Speaker B:So that'll be in Kansas city, I think, July 21st.
Speaker B:So I think it's just one round.
Speaker B:I'm still kind of getting used to the new format.
Speaker B:You know, it used to be 36 in one day, and now it's kind of.
Speaker B:They split it up to 18 holes for like a local qualifier and then the final USA qualifier.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That's coming up in a couple weeks.
Speaker B:Trying to get the game ready for that.
Speaker B:And also playing in the St. Louis district tournament they have here, which is kind of two rounds of stroke play and then match play.
Speaker B:So mid July, I'll be playing a lot.
Speaker B:So trying to get the game ready.
Speaker A:For that with the USAM stuff.
Speaker A:So you said it's one round.
Speaker A:Is that to get into the usam, or is that the first one and then there's another one after that?
Speaker B:Yeah, so I didn't have to do local qualifying this year.
Speaker B:You know, side tangent.
Speaker B:I'm kind of bummed how they do this now.
Speaker B:I'm really happy that they've added kind of the state qualifiers.
Speaker B:So, you know, if you win the Missouri Amateur, you're automatically in the usam, which wasn't the way before, which I think is great.
Speaker B:But, you know, for old guys like me to have two separate qualifiers and they're, you know, you kind of have to travel for.
Speaker B:For them, it's.
Speaker B:It's a little bit of a bummer, I think.
Speaker B:But having won the.
Speaker B:The Metropolitan Amateur last year at Belle Reeve got me exempt through local, so I'll just be doing final and then the US Amateurs at Olympic Club.
Speaker B:So would love to play that.
Speaker B: first US amateur was back in: Speaker B:So it would be.
Speaker B:It would be cool to play it, you know, 18 years later in.
Speaker B:In the USA again.
Speaker A:Man, that would be awesome.
Speaker A:How many of those have you played in?
Speaker B: So I played in: Speaker B: I played in: Speaker B: ve played because after that,: Speaker B: got my amateur status back in: Speaker B:But I think I've only done one USA qualifier just because of kind of their new format.
Speaker B:It just hasn't worked out kind of schedule wise, but definitely a tournament you always want to play in.
Speaker B:You know, it's the top AIM event In the world.
Speaker B:So yeah, would be a.
Speaker B:Would be fun.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:I didn't know that you played in one at Aaron Hills.
Speaker B:I did, yeah.
Speaker B: Back in: Speaker B:Barely missed match play there.
Speaker B:I think I missed it by.
Speaker B:I think I missed it by one.
Speaker B:I think I shot 72.
Speaker B:72, which I think before the tournament I would have felt like that probably would have gotten in, but it did not.
Speaker B:So mismatch play, I think by one or so.
Speaker B:But yeah, it was a cool experience.
Speaker B:The Second Sight course there.
Speaker B:I'm blanking on the name of it, but really cool.
Speaker B:I think it was a CBID McDonald or Seth Rayner close by too, which was awesome.
Speaker B:What was the name of that course?
Speaker B:Can't remember.
Speaker B:But I'm sure somebody listening to this will.
Speaker B:Will know.
Speaker B:Will know based off of the location and the course architect.
Speaker B:But really cool course then too.
Speaker A:Very cool.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I had a chance to go out to Aaron Hills last year with my son, actually.
Speaker A:It was so cool.
Speaker A:We went on Father's Day with my buddy TJ and his daughter Peyton.
Speaker A:We got there.
Speaker A:It was the day that McElroy and DeChambeau were battling it out for the US Open.
Speaker A:And so we were watching some of it in the, in the clubhouse, but then we had a tee time to do the little five hole kettle loop that night.
Speaker A:So we were literally streaming the end of the US Open out on the kettle loop when we were going to play and walk in the course.
Speaker A:And then we got to spend the night in the lodge, did the little, you know, the, the putting course at night.
Speaker A:Stayed out by the fire pits for a little bit, got up early morning, had two of the greatest caddies ever.
Speaker A:I can't remember their names.
Speaker A:Two female caddies.
Speaker A:And it was just what a cool, what a cool place.
Speaker A:What a cool experience.
Speaker A:Did you guys get to stay on property or what?
Speaker A:What did you guys have to do as far as lodging?
Speaker B:I don't remember where we stayed.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think.
Speaker B: I think: Speaker B:It probably wasn't as built up maybe as it was is when you guys went last year.
Speaker B:That sounds like an awesome Father's Day.
Speaker B:We just stayed at some hotel kind of nearby the course and I think I drove up.
Speaker B:So we just took my car.
Speaker B:But yeah, really cool.
Speaker B:Huge property.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:If anyone's kind of looking to play golf different places, I would definitely recommend checking it out.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:There's kind of a crazy story behind the whole building of the property.
Speaker A:I think Golf Channel did a big deal on it.
Speaker A:But like the one thing that I remember is the guy that was building it.
Speaker A:He wanted to build it to.
Speaker A:To host U.S. open.
Speaker A:That was, like, the main point of the whole thing.
Speaker A:But he wanted it to look like there was nothing else there.
Speaker A:So, like, if there was a farmhouse you could see in the distance, he's like, go buy that.
Speaker A:We need to get rid of that.
Speaker A:Like, and so it's just like, these rolling hills.
Speaker A:And then it was cool to watch the Women's Open there this year because they.
Speaker A:They just played there a few weeks ago, and to see it again, you know, and kind of relive some of the holes.
Speaker A:And, I mean, there's some.
Speaker A:There's some crazy holes out there as far as, like, just the greens and the complexes out there that.
Speaker A:But it was so much.
Speaker A:So much fun.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:Do you have any specific holes you remember out there?
Speaker A:Like, one.
Speaker A:One specific moment out there that kind of relives in your memory from the usa.
Speaker B:So, I remember it was really funny.
Speaker B:I got paired with Skip, which was.
Speaker B:Which was just really funny because we had played a lot that summer.
Speaker B:And then, you know, you go to the USA and you think you're going to get paired with people you don't know.
Speaker B:And so Skip, Burker Meyer and I were paired together.
Speaker B:I remember that.
Speaker B:You know, I remember one of my.
Speaker B:Or my best friend was catting for me, so there was that.
Speaker B:I don't remember, like, a shot that was like, wow, that was really good.
Speaker B:I unfortunately remember that I three putted from, like, three feet and then missed out on match play by one, if I'm just being honest.
Speaker B:Button for birdie, walk off with bogey on.
Speaker B:Like, I think it was.
Speaker B:I think it was my front nine, but it's just, you know, I think it was number eight.
Speaker B:I think nine's that really short par three.
Speaker B:So, unfortunately, Jeff, that is what I remember when I think back.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I think about that and then just.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was such a fun week.
Speaker B:You know, my mom was there, my cousin, who's also one of my best friends, like, came up to watch, and, you know, that's.
Speaker A:That's an.
Speaker B:And that is what ends up sticking with you, right?
Speaker B:You know, you remember the good, the bad, but it's really just kind of the hang, you know, Like, I remember there was a rain delay and just kind of hanging out with them in the clubhouse and.
Speaker B:And having fun, and it was.
Speaker B:It was a great week.
Speaker B:I remember I was bummed not to make match play, but, you know, nothing but good memories from that Week.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:It is amazing how just those situations, though, can linger and stick in your brain.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And really, that's a perfect segue into our guest this week, Dr. Gaston Cordova, because we talk a lot about, like, how do you even in the moment, how do you try to get rid of, you know, that immediate memory that you just had, the bad shot, the ball in the water, the ball out of bounds or whatever.
Speaker A:And we discuss a lot of, like, visualization, mental rehearsal.
Speaker A:What are a couple things that you end up doing when you're out there?
Speaker A:Maybe something like that, you know, through.
Speaker A: golfer than you were back in: Speaker A:How do you approach a situation like that a little bit differently?
Speaker A:Something doesn't go right.
Speaker A:What do you do to kind of get yourself back on track?
Speaker B:Yeah, I would say that's like the process you're always working on, right?
Speaker B:So I think that's going to be a really good episode for everybody.
Speaker B:But now it's just kind of like, you know, you.
Speaker B:You've seen so much happen, and you've realized, like, how much you actually don't have to play perfect and your opponents are going to do the same thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, very rarely does somebody, I don't think, you know, they're not going to play a perfect round, let alone a perfect tournament.
Speaker B:So just kind of reset.
Speaker B:I honestly trick myself and say, like, let's just pretend I birdied that hole.
Speaker B:Like, I'm still trying to do the same thing as if I made double, right?
Speaker B:So, you know, for me, I always kind of.
Speaker B:I try to make little goals while I'm playing.
Speaker B:And they made, you know, let's play these next three two under.
Speaker B:Let's play these next three one under, whatever it may be, or let's make this many birdies on the next, you know, the front nine.
Speaker B:So I'm always kind of have this mental checklist, and sometimes when you make like a double bogey or you three putt, it feels derailed.
Speaker B:But I always tell myself, man, if I would have looked at the scorecard after the round and said, you know, man, if I would have just par that hole instead of doubled, I would have shot X instead of let it ruin my whole round, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:Yeah, you can still have a really good round if you make a double, a triple, a bogey.
Speaker B:You know, obviously if you make three triples, it's tough to rebound.
Speaker B:But it's still the same mentality of, okay, let me Hit the best shot I can next and just, you know, it sounds, sounds easy.
Speaker B:But like, I, my goal when I play golf is I always kind of tell myself walking down the first tee is nothing's going to bother me today.
Speaker B:Like, nothing.
Speaker B:Like I've, I've hit more shanks than, you know, a lot of people in golf tournaments.
Speaker B:Like, it doesn't feel good, but like, if it happens, it happens.
Speaker B:I've shot really good rounds, you know, I've shot 62 with Shanks, you know, so it, it can, it, it can still be a good round even with horrific shots.
Speaker B:So just try to stay positive as much as you can.
Speaker B:Sometimes it, you know, sometimes you end up having a terrible round and that's just the way golf works.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:But you're saying there's a chance.
Speaker B:You're saying there's a chance.
Speaker A:That's what I love.
Speaker A:Yeah, this, this episode was so cool for me.
Speaker A:First of all, just because Gaston has become a very good friend, you didn't get to see him when he came and spoke here at the, at the gym not too long ago.
Speaker A:And talking about the book Inner Excellence, which for those of you that, that don't know about the book, Gaston will explain that in this episode he works very closely with the author, Jim Murphy, who has ties into the golf world, ties to Teddy Scott and, you know, but also to the, the Eagles NFL win this past year.
Speaker A:So very cool story about the book and how just the mentality of everything that Jim teaches in there helps with every bit of competition.
Speaker A:Not just golf, but it's life.
Speaker A:It's how you talk to yourself.
Speaker A:It's how you focus.
Speaker A:One thing that we did talk about a lot in there is the fact that the golf swing is very much like a dance.
Speaker A:But we don't necessarily look at it that way like we would in other sports.
Speaker A:Playing soccer growing up, I never thought about really technique of, of kicking a soccer ball when I was trying to hit a certain shot or, you know, taking a free kick.
Speaker A:But it seems like golf, we tend to, we tend to do that.
Speaker A:And I say we, as myself, a guy who started to play golf in his late 20s.
Speaker A:Right here we have you who you've been playing golf your entire life.
Speaker A:You've hit thousands and thousands and thousands of shots.
Speaker A:I would assume to you hitting a golf ball is more like, to me it was kicking a soccer ball.
Speaker A:Is that true?
Speaker A:Like you just, you know, that you've hit that shot.
Speaker A:Is it much more of a feel thing to you?
Speaker A:Are you still kind of working on pieces of the swing.
Speaker A:Thinking about technique, what does that look like for you?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's a great question.
Speaker B:I think there's, there's a confidence that my swing is not going to really change that much at this point.
Speaker B:And I kind of don't want it to change too much at this point is kind of how I look at it.
Speaker B:So when I am hitting it terrible, to me, it is a little bit more technique wise in terms of setup.
Speaker B:So, you know, always looking back at the posture, grip, alignment, the really basic things, I think that's normally what gets off because we either get lazy or you just, oh, this feels good.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden it's, you know, it's not where you want it.
Speaker B:So I always try to really, you know, especially in like the winter time, really work hard on technique.
Speaker B:If there's something is.
Speaker B:There is I want to change in my swing or like on the driving range, very technique heavy, but also having that mentality of like, I don't want to be thinking about technique right on the course.
Speaker B:To me, it's more visual, you know, feeling of where the club wants to go and hit it.
Speaker B:So I think there, you know, needs to be a balance, someone in there.
Speaker B:Because golf is a very skill based game.
Speaker B:I would say, you know, you kind of need to have some of those fundamentals based off of how you swing.
Speaker B:But it definitely, definitely you need to let it go when you're trying to play.
Speaker B:I don't think anyone's going to ever play their best when they're thinking about P6 and where their feet are and their hips are, you know, while you're trying to make a score.
Speaker A:All right, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna solicit some free advice from you, knowing obviously that you're gonna, you've played with me before, you've seen my swing.
Speaker A:You've.
Speaker A:We're gonna play tomorrow, so this is gonna be fun because we're gonna be able to keep people up to date on what's going on in your game.
Speaker A:In my game?
Speaker A:In.
Speaker A:In your fitness routine.
Speaker A:In my fitness routine, which we can talk about some things there as well.
Speaker A:We just had a great smash session the other night with the boys.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker A:Obviously, in my golf game, you know, things can be a little, we'll say erratic here and there, so.
Speaker A:But a serious question, when you don't have confidence in your swing, because there's many times when you tell me, like, dude, you just need to, you need to swing with a little more aggressive swing and Just trust it and have confidence.
Speaker A:But when you don't have confidence where that ball is going to go off the face, specifically the driver.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What's the suggestion there?
Speaker A:Because I know you say, let it go.
Speaker A:Take a rip at it, but then there's also this hesitancy of, like, well, if I do that, it might go left, it might go right.
Speaker A:What's your suggestion?
Speaker A:Give me.
Speaker A:Give me a little info here, Doc.
Speaker B:Yeah, I.
Speaker B:So I don't.
Speaker B:This isn't my saying.
Speaker B:I can't remember, you know, who said it, but I.
Speaker B:It's really hard to implement, but you always want to swing like, you know where it's going to go, but you don't care where it ends up, I think is the perfect balance.
Speaker B:Because at the end of the day, I don't care if you're Tiger woods in this peak, you don't know where the ball's going.
Speaker B:You really don't like it's.
Speaker B:You know, it.
Speaker B:Anything can happen in.
Speaker B:In the swing, but you need to have the confidence when you swing that you know where it's going to go.
Speaker B:And even if that's just kind of managing, you know where you're going to aim and things like that.
Speaker B:So one of the biggest things with you, Jeff, and I know it's easier said than done, is like, I want you to unleash the beast.
Speaker B:Like, we're in the smash session.
Speaker B:I don't even remember what that workout was called.
Speaker B:And I looked at you and I was like, I need to see that in the first tier.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because you're going at that aggressively.
Speaker B:And then kind of when you get on the first tee, I know you have the power, the speed there, and it's just that.
Speaker B:That a little anxiety of.
Speaker B:You don't truly know where it's going to go, but I think it's better for it to go far.
Speaker B:We don't know where it's going to go.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Instead of.
Speaker B:Because you're just never going to play your best, you know, swinging that way.
Speaker B:And even when I get nervous in tournaments, it's.
Speaker B:That's why people always want to swing really hard.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it lets go a little bit of that anxiety.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, you can't swing hard and be tense at the same time.
Speaker B:It's very hard to do.
Speaker B:So I would say you're not truly swinging hard.
Speaker B:It's fast if you're tense.
Speaker B:So to me, it's, you know, with the driver, you can.
Speaker B:You can let it rip.
Speaker B:Um, I.
Speaker B:You know, we Worked on our short game a little bit here the last couple weeks.
Speaker B:You're always a good putter, I think, but I just kind of want to see that, you know, you unleash that driver a little bit and it is, it sometimes it just takes a little bit of confidence seeing it.
Speaker B:You, I know you got fit for a new driver, so I feel like we're now kind of maybe starting to trust that a little bit more.
Speaker B:But all, all it takes is kind of that one good drive and then once you hit that good drive in that scenario, just envision that, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:You get on the tee and you're uncomfortable, just be like, this is number X at whatever time I hit that drive and just let it go.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:So I think that as this show builds, hopefully all of us hackers out here are going to continue to learn from my man JB here and get some tips like this.
Speaker A:And of course, like we said, this is all in the making, this new show.
Speaker A:So we're going to be kind of figuring out our groove and figuring out what works best for even this pre, pre interview banter.
Speaker A:We're going to be getting JB in on some of these interviews as well, hopefully.
Speaker A:But I think this is going to be a fun, fun ride here at Golf Don't Lie.
Speaker A:Our guest today, Dr. Gaston Cordova, like I said, good friend of mine, specialist in the mental side of the game.
Speaker A:The neuroscience piece works very closely with, with Jim Murphy as we talked about the inner excellence coaching platform.
Speaker A:And so you guys are going to get a ton of information and advice and even tips and tricks on just breathing techniques, visualization.
Speaker A:We go through a couple different things on, you know, how do you bounce back from, from bad, you know, situations on the course, how do you mentally get, get yourself in order?
Speaker A:And one of the coolest things that, that I think he said in his talk here at Empire Fitness Academy at the gym here was that, you know, when you're out there, your brain can go into all these different places, but the one thing you have to do first is slow your body down before you can get your mind to slow down.
Speaker A:So we talk a lot about breath and things like that.
Speaker A:And so I think this is going to be a good one for everybody.
Speaker A:Jb, hopefully you'll take some of this stuff into these upcoming bouts and, and we're going to see you in that usam.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:I'm excited, excited for this episode.
Speaker B:It's stuff you can't ever get good enough.
Speaker B:I don't care if you're new to the game or a seasoned pro, it's always something everybody's working on, so it's going to be a good one.
Speaker A:And it applies to so much stuff, too, right?
Speaker A:Not just golf, but just like even just, you know, anxiety with work or if you have a kind of a crazy schedule or you've got something going on that's just nagging at you.
Speaker A:Just ways to, to kind of deal with life.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Just like we say, golf don't lie.
Speaker B:No, it don't.
Speaker A:They don't.
Speaker A:All right, buddy.
Speaker A:We will see all of you guys after this episode and enjoy Dr. Gaston Cordova.
Speaker A:Gaston, my man.
Speaker A:What's going on, brother?
Speaker C:Daf, so great to see you, man.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me on here.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:I mean, last time you were here, you were playing a little MGF mandatory golf Friday with us and.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker A:How's the, how's that frozen shoulder coming along?
Speaker C:Yeah, it's much better, man.
Speaker C:It's much better.
Speaker C:I've been doing a lot of work with it and doing, doing the things I need to, to get it balanced and feeling better.
Speaker C:And I, I, I think I'm probably about 90%, so.
Speaker C:Playing some golf on Sunday, Excited about that.
Speaker C:Playing some golf with my daughter as well.
Speaker C:And that's, can't beat that.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:How's, how's the game looking?
Speaker A:I know that when you first came to stl, that was like you hadn't swung a club in I don't know how many months because of that shoulder.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden you had, I know you played Thursday.
Speaker A:We played Thursday afternoon.
Speaker A:We played Friday morning.
Speaker A:You played like marathon golf that weekend?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I think we played something like at least 36 in two days, if not more.
Speaker C:So basically baptism by fire.
Speaker C:Re, Baptism, I guess just jumping right into it after not swinging a club after that injury.
Speaker C:So it's good now.
Speaker C:It's good now.
Speaker C:I've been putting, putting together the work not just out there physically, but a lot of that, the mental stuff that I have people try out, too.
Speaker C:So now I'm becoming the student of the stuff that I coach.
Speaker C:So it's been, it's been fun, man.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Ever since you, you were here in town, you gave an incredible talk that Tuesday night here at Empire Fitness Academy.
Speaker A:And all the, all the MGF guys, all of our guys in the crew, you know, are talking about the breathing, they're talking about the, the pre shot routine and, you know, just really how to dial things in.
Speaker A:And so it's fun to see it even at the, you know, this is a very fun level of golf that we play.
Speaker A:We've got some very high level players, we've got some, some lower level players, but everybody there took away so much from that presentation.
Speaker A:So it just goes to show that no matter what level of golf you're playing, being able to dial some of these things that we're going to really dive into can be so, can be so beneficial.
Speaker A:When you were, when you were playing that week, because it was kind of your first time back out, what was it like for you?
Speaker A:Because obviously, you know, being this, being the teacher and being the golfer and you, you're being both at the same time.
Speaker A:And I know there were probably some struggles with the swing.
Speaker A:What was that, what was that like for you that week?
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:What, what an interesting question.
Speaker C:And just thought exploration, because when I reflect back, we know that frustrations are a pretty common thing in this crazy, beautiful game of golf.
Speaker C:And I, I love to describe golf that way because as crazy it is as it is, there's so much beauty to it.
Speaker C:And I reflected a lot during that time because we not only just had some great space to play, but we had some weather that was a little adverse with, with rain and winds and whatnot.
Speaker C:And then mix in all of these thoughts that just circulate in the mind.
Speaker C:Wow, I haven't swung a club.
Speaker C:Hey, I haven't seen these guys in a while.
Speaker C:I haven't seen this track.
Speaker C:Am I going to be able to bring it?
Speaker C:Am I not?
Speaker C:And so that whole inner critic, self judge, I was very observant of those things.
Speaker C:Starting to try to creep up and just trusting the habits, routines and just being curious and just seeing any kind of beauty out there, especially when things don't look so beautiful.
Speaker C:Can we maintain beautiful thoughts in the face of things that don't look too beautiful?
Speaker C:So that's a lot of what I was experiencing out there.
Speaker A:I would imagine that, you know, when you're dealing with your players and we're talking golfers, we're talking elite level baseball players, we're talking business leaders, you know, I mean, I know I struggle with this too, going out on the golf course.
Speaker A:We're out there here, here I am, a guy that runs a golf and fitness company, you know, restarting a podcast and, and you go out there and, and you hit some not great shots, the head starts spinning a little bit.
Speaker A:You know, I would venture to say you'd say the ego starts to really creep in there quite a bit.
Speaker A:And that's something you deal with with your players at the highest level.
Speaker A:But what about us, us regular Joes when we're out there?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, what's one way that we can kind of wrap our heads around the fact that, you know, we have to expect that that's going to start to happen?
Speaker A:How do we start to reel some of that stuff back?
Speaker C:Yeah, Jeff, a big part of it is, do you feel prepared for when you know that stuff is going to happen?
Speaker C:A big thing that I do strongly teach in the beginning, part of my coaching is that confidence comes from preparation.
Speaker C:I shared with everybody at that talk that early on in my career, I had the blessing to coincidentally meet Jack Nicklaus out at the Bears Club on his range.
Speaker C:Very, very, as I mentioned, coincidental, because I was working with a junior, and then I saw him come up on the range, and I had to pick his brain and ask him about this side of golf.
Speaker C:And as I shared at that workshop, my approach when I interrupted his practice, which other people mentioned, that I was lucky that he wasn't too upset with me, because I'm told he doesn't quite like that, which I respect.
Speaker C:When you're in your training mode and getting work done, having any distractions cannot be the most pleasant thing.
Speaker C:But he was so gracious and humble to answer my question when I asked him, what are some things about the mental game of golf that I could not only just share with this amazing youngster who brought me down here, but I could share it with anybody I work with in the future, inside or out of golf.
Speaker C:And he said, as we know, confidence is what is so important in this game.
Speaker C:But all of confidence comes from preparation.
Speaker C:And he said more to that, not just being prepared with your swing, your equipment, but are you prepared for the surprises that are going to come out?
Speaker C:And so I've taken that and really made that one of the cornerstones to how I coach.
Speaker C:Because when you start putting together your own process and your own habits and routines for when the adversity shows up now, you take away the power of your fear of the feelings that you might experience if adversity strikes.
Speaker C:So when you surrender to the reality that you're going to have adverse moments out there as a golfer, but if you feel fully prepared that on the back end of a bad shot or a bad hole, you have a very clear pathway back to neutral, to solid ground, to then step into that very next putt or tee shot or.
Speaker C:Or approach shot with your standard of how you want to feel to put a Good swing on this very next shot, if you are not prepared or subconsciously, you know, you don't have a prepared process, that's when this game can get out of hand.
Speaker C:So when we do examine the best performers in the world, they surrender to the fact that there are going to be moments out there that don't vibe.
Speaker C:But what's amazing about these elite performers is that they trust in a method and a process to get back on track, to then move into that very next swing, that very next moment, in a place where they feel more in control, so that the outer world and the outer world of golf doesn't control them.
Speaker C:So I hope that answered your question.
Speaker C:But because it's so fundamentally important, not just in golf, but throughout life, that you're going to get triggered, how good are you with your process to come back to neutral, come back to your state, to just start up again, one solid shot, one solid decision, one solid swing, and just move it along and start up again?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, surprises come in every facet of life, right?
Speaker A:And I think that that's kind of the.
Speaker A:The nature of this show.
Speaker A:Golf don't lie.
Speaker A:And this is kind of a perfect little segue into.
Speaker A:I'm trying to figure out when.
Speaker A:When to put this into each show, but I think this naturally just kind of flows in that, you know, golf reveals a lot to us.
Speaker A:Life reveals a lot to us.
Speaker A:Is there a what we like to call a golf don't lie moment in your own life where.
Speaker A:Where this has kind of come up for you?
Speaker A:What was that moment?
Speaker A:What was that situation?
Speaker A:And then was there resolve to it, or is that something that you learned from?
Speaker C:Yeah, when I reflect back, there's been so many different experiences on.
Speaker C:On this road of coaching that I.
Speaker C:That I do.
Speaker C:It's been almost 20 years in the performance coaching world.
Speaker C:And when I think back on that experience I mentioned at the US Open, back at pebble beach, and I was with my player, he was still an amateur.
Speaker C:He had just won the NCAA individual championship, and he goes out and qualifies, and we go to Pebble Beach.
Speaker C:One of the most important things that we prepared were what are all the constants that we've trained that, you know, you are fully in control of, you've practiced, you've rehearsed, you are fully confident in your constants.
Speaker C:I label them constants because there's going to be a boatload of variables out there.
Speaker C:And so when we prepared for those, the span of time between when he qualified to getting out there, we just labeled we just created a table and listed off all of the different variables that he had not experienced yet in his world of golf, even though he was at that time the best college golfer.
Speaker C:He just won NCAA individual title.
Speaker C:But then he started sharing with me how the grandstands tv playing with his childhood idols, being able to play out, play, play around, or in the mix with Tiger or being on the putting green with.
Speaker C:With those guys.
Speaker C:We put together every last possible variable that we felt we would encounter during U.S. open week and during the tournament.
Speaker C:And then we stacked up all the constants on the other side of, okay, if this variable comes up, we have this process prepared.
Speaker C:And we went all the way through.
Speaker C:And it was a beautiful thing because the plan was unfolding beautifully.
Speaker C:He was on.
Speaker C:Was that the sixth hole, the par five on the front nine, the pebble, the second par five up the hill.
Speaker C:He ends up eagling that hole on Saturday.
Speaker C:And he launches to the very top of the leaderboard.
Speaker C:Tied for what?
Speaker C:Tied for first as an amateur.
Speaker C:Just graduated junior year from college, going into senior year, and he's staring at the leaderboard.
Speaker C:Everyone is seeing that he's at the top of top of the US Open, perhaps an amateur who's about to go off and win.
Speaker C:And so reflecting back on that moment, I remember the pit in my stomach I had when my phone started blowing up.
Speaker C:Everyone was going bananas seeing.
Speaker C:Seeing him tied for the lead.
Speaker C:And immediately I knew this is a variable.
Speaker C:We did not put on the board the possibility of winning the US Open.
Speaker C:The whole goal was to first make the cut.
Speaker C:The second one was to finish low amateur.
Speaker C:And I reflect back, for me as a coach, shame on me as a coach.
Speaker C:And I've learned from it.
Speaker C:To not have prepared a variable of, okay, if you are presented with the opportunity to win, are we prepared for that moment?
Speaker C:Didn't even cross our mind.
Speaker C:So if you go back and see the scorecard of that, and I looked at it not too long ago, he made eagle.
Speaker C:And then immediately he goes, bogey, bogey, bogey, bogey.
Speaker C:Four bogeys in a row.
Speaker C:And I just knew.
Speaker C:I knew before it happened, because I'm like, wow, we didn't put this one up on the board.
Speaker C:So I made a promise to myself to.
Speaker C:To never make that mistake again, to not expand limitless possibilities of what life will present and the opportunity to win the US Open as an amateur.
Speaker C:So that's one that I hold dear to my heart.
Speaker C:And I keep it very, very much in the forefront when we.
Speaker C:When I do this exercise with the people I work with is to expand our vision and see endless possibilities that in the game of golf, any possible thing can happen on any given round.
Speaker C:I've had players who go out there who shot 59.
Speaker C:I, I work with a player who shot 59.
Speaker C:And I know you, you've heard this too.
Speaker C:In your lowest round, nobody goes out there and it's like, okay, I'm gonna go shoot 65 today.
Speaker C:Oh, I'm gonna go shoot the course record today.
Speaker C:That's though, when the course record is actually shot time and time again.
Speaker C:When I've asked my players that, like, was that your goal?
Speaker C:They're like, absolutely not.
Speaker C:It just happened.
Speaker C:And so I feel that is such an important thing for golfers and anybody beyond the world of golf to really prepare themselves every morning in their routines, every night in their routines, that, hey, today's an adventure.
Speaker C:Let's see what happens.
Speaker C:Anything can happen today.
Speaker C:And let's just be prepared with when extraordinary moments pop up or the adverse on the other side pop up, we're prepared to sink back into our process of calming our system down and get back into our bubble.
Speaker C:I call it the vacuum.
Speaker C:So that, that vacuum, that bubble around your next shot, that you're prepared to step into that with a very clean slate and just execute what you know you can do.
Speaker C:So, yeah, that's the one I reflect on a lot.
Speaker C: That Pebble Beach: Speaker A:Yeah, that, that story is incredible with, with Scott.
Speaker A:And Scott's a local St. Louis guy, so just the connection there that, that you worked with him and he has played with a lot of, a lot of our friends here in St. Louis and worked with some of the.
Speaker A:With Brian fote here in St. Louis.
Speaker A:What an incredible story.
Speaker A:And, and just, you know, the whole situation that not looking, not.
Speaker A:Not thinking big enough.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Not realizing that no, this, this could happen and not having that plan for that.
Speaker A:We talked a lot about flow and getting into that flow state and like you talked about, like, the preparation ultimately, ultimately is what kind of allows you to get into that flow state.
Speaker A:When you talk about the pre shot routine and the prep work there, why is it that that prep work allows you then the freedom to kind of experience that flow state?
Speaker A:And I know that we can get pretty scientific here.
Speaker A:We could go into all kinds of neuroscience, which is where you love to go deep on.
Speaker A:So feel free to steer this shit, buddy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:The more and more I delve deeper into the brain, embody connection science, and then when we get into heart transformation with a lot of what I coach through inner excellence and a lot of what Jim Murphy has mentored me and coached side by side with me on this.
Speaker C:When you understand the subconscious mind and your deepest inner belief systems and how to train your beliefs, it's, it just opens up these doors you couldn't some have a hard time even imagining are possible within them.
Speaker C:And so when we bring the neuroscience to it and understand what our brain is doing and it's constantly answering questions and it's a problem solving machine and I like to pull a line from Quincy Jones has a, has a very nice quote saying that there's no problems, there's only puzzles.
Speaker C:And so when your brain is wired to solve puzzles and puzzle pieces are sprinkled everywhere and when we are in this self protected fight or flight space of our brain, the only, the only puzzle, AKA problem that the brain and body is wired to solve is how to survive.
Speaker C:It doesn't care about making a putt.
Speaker C:It doesn't care about being smooth with your tempo on your next tee shot.
Speaker C:It's in this accelerated physiology of fight, orf, flight.
Speaker C:I know a lot of your listeners have heard of fight or flight.
Speaker C:And so when you understand, oh, what are the roots to why my body is reacting to my environment in the moment?
Speaker C:And this is where golf is such a beautiful game because so much of your inner space will be revealed in things on the golf course and so, so much of what you're not free of yet, so many things that you're still attached to.
Speaker C:The, the, the fear of not being seen a certain way in front of your peers, your friends, the fear of failure, the fear of your version of failure.
Speaker C:All those things are hidden deep down inside.
Speaker C:And lock, I don't want to say locked away.
Speaker C:They, they seem like they're locked away in your subconscious.
Speaker C:However, there are ways to access those things that are deep within you and there's ways to start neutralizing, transforming them and start having some of these things that may have been limited, limiting in your life.
Speaker C:There are ways to start working with them, to start having those things become fully limitless in your life.
Speaker C:And so that's where I just have this passion to see how golf is such a, it's such a beautiful sport to be able to transform yourself from the inside out.
Speaker C:And when I help people see golf in that way, it becomes really fun because it becomes not just a hobby, but it's, it could be applied for your own pathway of selfless actualization.
Speaker C:Self actualization is a psychology term which is amazing within our excellence, we actually Shifted a touch.
Speaker C:And we speak of it as selfless actualization.
Speaker C:So, yeah, golf is packed with every opportunity for this infinite road of self mastery.
Speaker A:That's so true.
Speaker A:I have a kind of a fun story to tell you that just happened this past weekend, I think.
Speaker A:You know, I played in a member Guest in Kansas City, and it was not my best golf.
Speaker A:It was not our collective best golf, but we eked it out.
Speaker A:We did.
Speaker A:We needed to do.
Speaker A:We won our flight, we made it to the horse race.
Speaker A:But it was.
Speaker A:It was the second day.
Speaker A:The first day, I literally played not well at all.
Speaker A:And I turned to my buddy TJ on day two, after the first two holes, I played two very good holes, parred both holes.
Speaker A:And I looked at him, I said, do you know what I did different these last two holes?
Speaker A:He's like, no, what?
Speaker A:And I said, well, first of all, I listened to a golf meditation this morning.
Speaker A:I woke up, you know, excited for the day.
Speaker A:And I listened to.
Speaker A:I think it was maybe from flow code or something, I can't remember, but one of the things that they said in the meditation was obviously, you know, be grateful for being out there.
Speaker A:Be, you know, be.
Speaker A:Be excited to play.
Speaker A:But when you step up to your shot, just smile over the ball.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:Just smile.
Speaker A:And I was like, you know what?
Speaker A:Why not?
Speaker A:And I felt immediately, the first time I did it, I smiled, and all the thoughts.
Speaker A:It felt like all of the thoughts kind of drained out of me, and it was just like, smile like you're just out here.
Speaker A:Just swing.
Speaker A:And I hit, I think, three, four really good shots in a row.
Speaker A:And then that.
Speaker A:That kind of became the theme over the next couple of days.
Speaker A:And same thing when I was in the.
Speaker A:In the horse race.
Speaker A:I played my best golf in the horse race, which really, I felt like, holy crap, I should be.
Speaker A:I should be more nervous than I am, but just stood over the ball, smiles like, I'm here.
Speaker A:We made it.
Speaker A:Big deal.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Nobody cares if I hit a bad shot here.
Speaker A:But that whole thing, just smile was like.
Speaker A:It was like a weight awesome coming off my shoulders.
Speaker A:I. I meant to tell you that beforehand, but.
Speaker A:But, yeah, it was cool.
Speaker A:Have you ever had an experience like that or had a player just kind of have that revelation?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's so cool.
Speaker C:And thank you for sharing that very real experience because it's.
Speaker C:It's a perfect example of when you do something genuine, because there's.
Speaker C:There's two different ways you could have done that.
Speaker C:You could have done that as a.
Speaker C:Okay, I'M going to smile.
Speaker C:I better get something out of this.
Speaker C:Versus genuinely having a moment of just being free and having a true moment with yourself and your surroundings to just express appreciation for living the moment that you were living right then and there.
Speaker C:And as woo woo as that might sound on the surface, there are neurological and neuroscience explanations of why that when genuine presence and true, genuine gratitude for the moment and you live in the life you're living, when that truly comes through, there's a shift that happens that allows you to unweight all of the thinking and ego based type of programs that are getting in the way of what your body knows what to do.
Speaker C:It's just the surroundings and your circumstances that just flip on a few different dials that then put us into our mind and start unraveling.
Speaker C:The overthinking, the self conscious thinking, negative thinking, all these different elements of that protective part of our brain that just gets in the way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:When I spoke with you and your whole audience a couple weeks ago, so many times we've heard, heard others, or we've said it ourselves, if I could just get out of my own way, I'll play my best golf and, and so I love to then unpack.
Speaker C:Okay, what does that mean?
Speaker C:If we were to pause to really analyze or just observe, what does it mean that you're getting in your own way?
Speaker C:It's that thinking brain, it's that, it's that needing to know that what I'm doing, the hard work I'm putting in, I need to get a reward.
Speaker C:And when you just listen to that kind of internal experience, you could see that it's a self serving intention that you're trying to get something out of golf.
Speaker C:And so with some of my players, I speak of it as, think of it as a relationship.
Speaker C:And when you're very selfish in any relationship, you don't even have to say a thing, it's just your energy is felt.
Speaker C:It's like very selfish, very self serving, very greedy.
Speaker C:And I said think about golf in that way.
Speaker C:When you're really greedy with golf, golf's going to slap you in the face, right?
Speaker C:It's, it's, it's such a beautiful thing.
Speaker C:Colin Morikawa had an awesome, very simple response to an interview question at the end of.
Speaker C:I think it was the master from two Masters ago, might have been three, where he had a really good shot of winning on the back nine at Augusta.
Speaker C:And then he, he had a quick swing, I remember seeing it.
Speaker C:And then the round got away and he didn't win.
Speaker C:And so when they asked them, you know, what happened there on.
Speaker C:I forget what hole it was, but it was on the back nine on Sunday.
Speaker C:And he was like, that was simple.
Speaker C:I just got a little too greedy.
Speaker C:I just got a little too greedy out there.
Speaker C:Like, boom.
Speaker C:It's so amazing that he was so aware of that little sliver of greed of wanting just a little more than what he was doing.
Speaker C:Everything he was doing got him to that opportunity.
Speaker C:But then there was a part of him, he's like, I want a little bit more.
Speaker C:And boom.
Speaker C:Golf slaps you in the face like you have everything you need right here, right now.
Speaker C:What do you want more?
Speaker C:You want more birdies?
Speaker C:And you just railed off three birdies.
Speaker C:Oh, you want four birdies.
Speaker C:When you're in that space of not chasing birdies or pars or a score, you're in that beautiful dance and the experience with just experiencing the beauty of playing golf.
Speaker C:And so then golf's like, all right, I can reward you for that.
Speaker C:So, yeah, golf don't lie.
Speaker A:Golf don't lie.
Speaker A:Right, brother?
Speaker A:And we'll be right back.
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Speaker A:Let's get back to the show.
Speaker A:One other experience that I had this weekend, and this wasn't me, but it's something that I observed in our flight was a father son team.
Speaker A:And all weekend they were kind of leading.
Speaker A:They were tied for the lead.
Speaker A:And the three teams we that had played them before, we got to play them.
Speaker A:Every single one of them talked about the sun.
Speaker A:He's in his 30s.
Speaker A:And they're like, he's just a big.
Speaker A:He's a big guy.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:But you can see he's just an athlete.
Speaker A:Like, he's just an athlete.
Speaker A:He can.
Speaker A:And he can play.
Speaker A:And so we met him and they couldn't have been nicer.
Speaker A:He was like 6, 4 he was a Division 1 tennis player up at Iowa.
Speaker A:He hit the ball as far as anyone I've ever seen it.
Speaker A:But it was on the seventh hole.
Speaker A:I was standing behind, like, next to him on the tee box as he was getting ready to go up.
Speaker A:And I heard him just kind of talking to himself, and I heard him say, all right, buddy, you got this.
Speaker A:Your body knows what to do.
Speaker A:Your body knows what to do.
Speaker A:And he went up and he hit it.
Speaker A:And as he was coming back, I'm like, michael, I can't help but but have observed, you know, and tell you, like, I love what you were just saying to yourself.
Speaker A:And he's like, it's in the inner game of tennis, man.
Speaker A:It's something I learned a long time ago.
Speaker A:You just got to trust it.
Speaker A:You just got to trust that your body knows what to do.
Speaker A:And I was like, man, that's what a real athlete, a high level athlete that has probably worked with somebody like yourself.
Speaker A:They just know that you can't get up there and be so technical and think about those things.
Speaker A:And that's where most of the time we go so wrong, is when we get in those technical pieces.
Speaker A:One, one direction I want to steer you in here is when we get to that place you were so good at, at relaying the message.
Speaker A:And you and I talked about this in the golf cart the next day, about the fact that when you are out on the course and this could be in anything, if you're having trouble sleeping at night and your brain's going crazy, you just hit a ball in the water and you're kind of like, oh, my gosh, everything's unraveling a little bit here.
Speaker A:The thing that you said that will live with me forever is in that moment.
Speaker A:First of all, you can't talk yourself back into a positive mindset.
Speaker A:Like, you can't slow your mind again until you slow your body down.
Speaker A:And that was such a crux of your talk that night.
Speaker A:Can you elaborate on that a little bit for us and why that's the case?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:I'm so glad you're bringing this up because I feel this will help so many people who just give this a listen.
Speaker C:Because when I learned this, it was a whole new level of wisdom, knowledge, enlightenment, whatever.
Speaker C:We want to experience that the aha moment in life, right?
Speaker C:The magic moment that gives you hope is like, oh, my goodness, I've been doing something a certain way with the same results over and over, but, whoa, with this new piece of knowledge, I could see how the old Pattern kept on bumping up against the same result.
Speaker C:And so when I coach and thank you for acknowledging that very fundamental point in my message is that when the mind is just off in this overthinking self protection space, trying to solve the problem from where the problem's coming from creates more problems.
Speaker C:Because what's happening just neurologically and just physiologically as biological beings, our body is actually reacting to this perceived threat.
Speaker C:So when there's all of this input from our body that it happens without our conscious awareness.
Speaker C:The heart is pumping a little faster, all of those waveforms that are coming up from the body are coming into our brain and our brain hops a ride on that fast moving alert system from down below.
Speaker C:And then the mind feeds into it and then we're caught in that, in that vortex, right, that hurricane I was talking about.
Speaker C:And so when we are able to learn that, whoa, let's first start with the body.
Speaker C:Let's get the body in a balanced state through again.
Speaker C:I always speak about how breath is the first gateway into the body to bring all of the, all of the reactive forces that are happening down here and even in here.
Speaker C:I mean, our face also has all of these signals that pump into the brain when we know that we have the, I don't want to call it an option.
Speaker C:It's literally the, a method to get to the mind, to calm it through the body.
Speaker C:Now it's like, okay, I have something I could, I could immediately grab onto immediately when I feel my mind is racing.
Speaker C:I know, hey, let's go through my checklist.
Speaker C:Let's check in with my body.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:If my mind is racing, I could almost assume that there's racing happening in my body, which is what's happening.
Speaker C:There's a reactive experience that your physiology is going through with this perceived threat.
Speaker C:So when you override it and get into this calming process, calming the body first through breath, that calms the heart, helps settle things in the gut as well.
Speaker C:I didn't talk too much about how the gut plays a huge role into all of these inputs that go into the brain.
Speaker C:But to answer your question, the power of your practices and routines to calm that body first, trusting that as everything slows down from everything in here, the brain will start slowing down so that your thoughts will start slowing down and then you're able to experience your thoughts in a much more, in calmer waters.
Speaker C:Or you could have more clarity and then apply the things that you have of the mind, such as words, self talk, vibrant images, images of the mind that are that fill you with joy and bliss.
Speaker C:That smile that you talked about, being able to utilize that smile, that smile.
Speaker C:All of the nerve endings and sensory motor inputs from a smile, they're associated with good times in life.
Speaker C:So your brain has those things all connected in there and it just gives you access to a much more clear mind.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, I'm so glad that that resonated with you.
Speaker C:And why these very disciplined practices away from the golf course to train your body to get into this calm state and then have the mind and body experience coherence and resonance, you start just experiencing time and time again, week after week.
Speaker C:And as you start compiling your practice, that confidence that, oh, I'm able to get myself back on track.
Speaker C:I know how to do it, I know how to calm my body.
Speaker C:I do it every single day, three to five minutes a day.
Speaker C:I know how to then get into that mental space where I could then access the things that I, that I know are within me.
Speaker A:It's almost kind of like when you maybe get an email from somebody and you get all fired up or something happens, you're like, I want to respond to this.
Speaker A:And you're all in this like crazed state.
Speaker A:And the advice is always wait 24 hours, let everything simmer down and then you'll be thinking much more clearly and then, you know, you'll be able to send out a much nicer email and get your points across and stuff.
Speaker A:It's almost like an abbreviated version of that where if your brain and your heart and your mind are racing all over the place, you just can't think clearly, you can't perform clearly.
Speaker A:And what's cool about this is that, and this is just a real world example.
Speaker A:In my own household, my little guy, my 11 year old grant, has been having some trouble sleeping at night.
Speaker A:And so like he's getting up at, you know, an hour after he goes to bed saying he can't sleep and he's like, oh, he kind of almost gets into this anxious state.
Speaker A:And we, we sat down and had a conversation one day and I said, Look, Dr. Gaston said that you can't, you can't get your brain to settle down until we get your body and your heart rate to settle down.
Speaker A:And, and like it clicked for him.
Speaker A:And so like even he's still having some issues, but like he's listening to a meditation before he goes to bed and it, you know, it settles him down.
Speaker A:And so it's like again, this isn't just about what happens on the golf course, but, but in Just your everyday life.
Speaker A:When you're feeling stressed at work, you get that email or you have a phone call that doesn't go right or something like that, you know, just using some of these tactics.
Speaker A:Can you walk us through a bit of an example of like a real world situation?
Speaker A:What you would have one of your players do, say they just hit a bad shot or the wheels are starting to come off.
Speaker A:This literally happened to one of our guys, Bertie, in our group.
Speaker A:He said the weekend after you were in town, he was playing great in a tournament, went like double bogey, bogey, bogey.
Speaker A:And he's like, I stopped and I did some of the tactics that Gaston taught us.
Speaker A:So what would you have somebody do in that situation?
Speaker A:I know there's a couple options there.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's great that you're acknowledging the power of the pause.
Speaker C:And so in order to be able to pause timely, because what we see in the best golfers is that they're able to step in and pause in a timely manner, whereas some of us who've not experienced as much practice and the purposeful pause to be very aware of how the performance is unfolding.
Speaker C:And as you mentioned, double bogey, bogey, that's at least 15, 20 minutes has passed from that initial jolting moment on the course.
Speaker C:So when a player has a very prepared process for when that squirrely shot or that bad hole shows up, it's having a very systematic, rehearsed plan of step one, get into the breath in some way.
Speaker C:I prefer also adding an eyes closed moment.
Speaker C:There's a reason, because when we shut our eyes, that's another thing that's under conscious control and unconscious control.
Speaker C:I mentioned that as well, that we're blinking all the time subconsciously.
Speaker C:But when we're able to pause and literally close our eyes, it does two things, more than two things.
Speaker C:But the two big things I like to speak of is when you're able to pause.
Speaker C:We'll talk about breath in a second.
Speaker C:But when we're able to pause and close our eyes, when we think about the fight or flight and the brain moving super fast because it's looking for escape routes and fighting fighting positions and fighting tactics.
Speaker C:Because we're in a fight or flight mode, the second we close our eyes, the 5 million bits of information that are entering our eyes every second, it's creating brain activity.
Speaker C:So when you actually close your eyes, you literally decrease the amount of mental processing that you're experiencing in the moment.
Speaker C:That's why an eye is closed.
Speaker C:That's why Jason Day Process is really powerful because you're literally shifting the amount of brain processing that you're having in the moment.
Speaker C:And so getting back to answering your question, being prepared, and we're going to get into why.
Speaker C:Dress rehearsal.
Speaker C:Mental rehearsal is vitally important to be able to perform at your best, no matter what in golf or in life.
Speaker C:Because you, you want to have not just your method laid out, but you want to know that you have practiced it and you've prepared to be aware that a double bogey just showed up.
Speaker C:Be aware that your next two to three minute walk to that next tee shot, you have time.
Speaker C:This is the interesting, beautiful thing of golf.
Speaker C:You have the luxury of time to pause and go through your process of close the eyes, do a cyclic sigh or any kind of breath practice that you've trained, that you know that when I do this, my brain is out of that high beta, fast moving protective space and I'm bringing it down closer to that brain area, that brain speed, where I can access a good swing.
Speaker C:And so when you have number one awareness that I'm accelerated, the result of a double bogey, you could make a very clear, I don't want to call it an assumption.
Speaker C:It's a.
Speaker C:You could deduce that your whole system is most likely up a couple clicks, if not more so then from there you make some hard and fast rules and commitment to yourself to say, before I step onto this next tee shot, I am running my process, some sort of breath I love and eyes closed.
Speaker C:Or there's this technique with inner excellence where we describe it as the reset, where you're able to just get your energy as far off of you as possible and then step back in, have a very clear mantra that you've prepared because your words, your words matter, they matter so important.
Speaker C:But we want to be able to use those words with the right brain space.
Speaker C:If you're using words still in this aggravated space, you're just working against you.
Speaker C:So find your calm the body through breaths and, and perhaps some sort of eye, visual field type of tactics which I could get into that as well, have some sort of word focus phrase, mantra, something like that one player you just shared a few minutes ago.
Speaker C:And then I strongly have all my players focus on rhythm and tempo.
Speaker C:Just get into, just find your tempo before you take that next swing.
Speaker C:Because the thing that breaks down, put it this way, and there's been this, some amazing scientific studies that have gone into what breaks down the most in competition, when the pressures on or when you're in the heat of battle, your timing and tempo will be off.
Speaker C:Even just the click in golf is the difference between striping it down the fairway.
Speaker C:A millisecond off with your timing and tempo will send that straight drive, will turn it into a drive where you just duck, hook it into the woods.
Speaker C:Because you're too quick.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker C:You didn't finish your, your backswing, your transition at the top was too quick.
Speaker C:Your timing and tempo was affected.
Speaker C:So the protocol is calm down your physiology.
Speaker C:Find one thing of the mind, a focus phrase or some sort of mantra, affirmation.
Speaker C:Get into your tempo, find your tempo that you've trained beforehand and go in there and just simply focus on one smooth swing with your tempo and just start up again.
Speaker C:That's a bounce.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's a bounce back protocol that is highly effective.
Speaker A:Do you ever use music when you're training that tempo with your clients?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I love that, that you brought that up.
Speaker C:So music has its, its own beautiful power in itself and has so much magic because it does access, helps you access that, that space of freedom, that space away from the thinking mind.
Speaker C:Because the thinking mind is where we get into trouble.
Speaker C:When we play this game of golf and this game of life.
Speaker C:We want to, we want to be in the experiencing mind.
Speaker C:When you're in the experiencing mind, you're not thinking, you're.
Speaker C:You're just in harmony with what's happening in front of you.
Speaker C:And so music is an awesome way to shift your state.
Speaker C:So your state is your current status of what your thoughts and feelings are in any given moment.
Speaker C:So with rehearsal techniques and other training and with tempo music, you find a tune, a song, something that does match the tempo and rhythm of your swing.
Speaker C:I had a D1 golfer out of Georgia.
Speaker C:She was awesome.
Speaker C:And I was teaching her her tempo cues and we were exploring what is the, the tempo cue of your best possible swing.
Speaker C:The one where you're just free flowing fluid.
Speaker C:Everything is just very graceful.
Speaker C:And we found her tempo and just the, the tempo of, of that swing.
Speaker C:And she was using a metronome.
Speaker C:And then I had, there's some pretty awesome apps out there that people train with too.
Speaker C:But then I said, you could also find a song.
Speaker C:And if you find a song, one of your favorite songs that actually matches that tempo, you can utilize a part of that song or a lyric that matches it.
Speaker C:And if you want to hear that in your swing, go ahead and hear it.
Speaker C:And so she found that and it was, it was great.
Speaker C:So whenever she was doing some range work or at home, Visualization, she would play that.
Speaker C:Shut it, shut it off and then hear it in her own inner, inner voice sound and then match up her body to that.
Speaker C:Because that's a huge thing that I work with my golfers.
Speaker C:I said, if you just look at a golf swing or the putt or any moment, athletic moment in golf, the physical components, all it is, is a dance routine.
Speaker C:I talk about that.
Speaker C:It's simply a dance routine.
Speaker C:You're moving your body through certain angles and movements and rotations to a certain rhythm in time, and you figure out your own dance routine and you master the rhythm and timing of that and be prepared for in competition and in the heat of battle, it's going to feel like it's going to try to speed you up.
Speaker C:Your goal is to not allow the outer circumstances to affect that dance that you've done thousands of times and just go in and do your dance.
Speaker C:Is a big thing that I have a lot of my players think about.
Speaker A:Yeah, I have a golfer that I've worked with for many years.
Speaker A:She's legitimately one of the top.
Speaker A:Now she's a senior amateur golfer, but she has seven USGA titles, which puts her in the league with Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods.
Speaker A:I mean, there's only, there's less than 10 people that have that many USGA titles.
Speaker A:And, and I remember years ago she said that one of the, the things that made the biggest impact on her, her golf swing was working on doing some tempo work.
Speaker A:And so then, you know, I went and got that book tour tempo and, and I know that like, that's a, that's one of the big apps that people use.
Speaker A:And I know that you can kind of diagnose what's the speed of your swing or kind of the, the optimal tempo.
Speaker A:And I was wondering if I have to, to look and see if they have songs laid in with those specific tempos, because, I mean, how great would that be to be able to step on the tee box and instead of hearing a beep, beep, beep, you know, you've, you've just got this song that you've heard, preferably something like beastie boys or 90s hip hop or something like there you go where you.
Speaker A:But you.
Speaker A:But you've heard it so many times and you can kind of get back in that rhythm that I could see that being super, super helpful for myself.
Speaker A:And, and so many of the golfers that I play with that one of the biggest issues that we have on the tee box is simply just getting out of rhythm.
Speaker A:You go you go a little too quick from the top, you know, your back's a little off, and it just throws everything off without getting so freaking technical and trying to change that stuff in your swing.
Speaker C:Yeah, man.
Speaker A:So you've mentioned inner excellence several times here.
Speaker A:We got to tell the story about.
Speaker A:Well, first of all, let's talk about how you and Jim so started working together.
Speaker A:Jim is the author of the book Inner Excellence, and I'll let you kind of jump in with some of the people that you guys have worked with and that have been impacted by Jim's.
Speaker A:By Jim's work.
Speaker A:But then we got to tell the story of.
Speaker A:Of the explosion.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:He's.
Speaker C:He's become a brother to me.
Speaker C:We've been.
Speaker C:We've been very close for years now.
Speaker C:Over 10 years now.
Speaker C:And the really funny story about Gemini is that when I was recruited into the performance coaching world, my previous mentor, he was also an author and speaker and worked with some of the best players in the world in every sport and executives.
Speaker C:We actually recruited him to be a coach for us.
Speaker C:When I remember, my boss is like, hey, there's this author who's working on some book, and he interviewed me for some of the pieces of his book.
Speaker C:He's like, I think he could be a great part of this team, and I'd like for you to mentor him as a coach in what we're doing.
Speaker C:So we flew him out to Chicago.
Speaker C:Jim Murphy came out to Chicago and spent a whole weekend with us, and he and I became really close.
Speaker C:Just.
Speaker C:Just kindred spirits.
Speaker C:And luckily, he didn't take the job.
Speaker C:That's my amazing story about Jim because he chose not to join us in that company.
Speaker C:And he went on to finish his book, but we kept each other's number.
Speaker C:A couple years later, I'm watching the Masters.
Speaker C:It was the year Hunter Mahan had a great part of his career.
Speaker C:Then he didn't have a great part of his career, but then he had a revival.
Speaker C:And I'm watching the Masters, and they're talking about him the night of, you know, live at the Masters, and like, yeah, Hunter Mahan is having a great showing.
Speaker C:He's having a small revival here.
Speaker C:He started working with a performance coach from a Canadian performance coach, Jim Murphy.
Speaker C:And I, like, jump off my chair like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker C:Is this Jim from.
Speaker C:From a couple years back.
Speaker C:So I had his number in my phone still, and I. I text him immediately.
Speaker C:I'm like, jim, it's this Gaston.
Speaker C:Are you.
Speaker C:Are you at the Masters right now?
Speaker C:And he Hits me back immediately.
Speaker C:And he was like, wow, it's so great to hear from you.
Speaker C:And he just sent me all this amazing, exciting stuff of what was happening.
Speaker C:And he was working with Henrik Stenson and Sean Foley, became good friends with him.
Speaker C:He started working with a lot of players and it was very, it was literally only a few months after he published the original version of Inner Excellence.
Speaker C: This was back In I think: Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But anyway, from that moment when, when I texted him and we got really deeply connected from, from that one text message exchange after not seeing each other for a few years and he was actively coaching some of the best athletes in the world and very, very fortunate, beautiful blessings in his life.
Speaker C:And we just continued to collaborate and have coaching theories and conversations back and forth.
Speaker C:And then he's the one who actually helped me dive deeper into the biohacking and neuroscience of human performance because he was able to spend time out at P3 out in Santa Monica, amazing facility out there that works with some of the best athletes in the world.
Speaker C:And he, he reaches out, he's like, oh, you would love what they're doing out here.
Speaker C:They're into the applied science of human performance.
Speaker C:And he sent me the book the Rise of Superman by Steven Kotler.
Speaker C:And it just popped up on my doorstep.
Speaker C:And that book is incredible because that was my very first plunge into the deep end of the applied science of neuro.
Speaker C:Neuro of human performance.
Speaker C:And it was interesting because he knew that I was already speaking of a lot of the neuroscience based approaches to helping athletes or business, sports life.
Speaker C:And so from that moment we collaborated so much.
Speaker C: e of Inner excellence back in: Speaker C:And I, he and I just continued for all these years to, to really grow our approaches and theories in coaching.
Speaker C:And so yeah, when the explosion happened, because he was teaching me how inner excellence is, is a different approach, I started utilizing inner excellence in while I was bringing a lot of the neuroscience components to him.
Speaker C:And so it's just been an amazing collaborative partnership in growing together as coaches.
Speaker C:So interestingly enough, the book's been out for well over 10 years.
Speaker C:He's worked with some of the best athletes out there.
Speaker C:He worked with Jason Day, Sam Burns, Stuart Sink, had an amazing article about Jim Murphy and Inner excellence years ago, but again, it never reached the masses.
Speaker C:Not a lot of people have ever heard of him until this past January 12th when AJ Brown was sitting there on the sidelines reading it in the wild card game.
Speaker C:And that's when the whole viral explosion and now global awareness of inner excellence has really shifted our lives and our ability to really bring, bring these lessons to more and more people.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know that it's become kind of a whirlwind these last several months really since January, since all of that went down.
Speaker A:And you guys are kind of working through what the, what this even means, what this looks like, you know, talking about different inner excellence programs.
Speaker A:What have you guys kind of ironed out at all?
Speaker A:What can you share with us as far as the, what the future holds with some of the inter excellence stuff?
Speaker C:Yeah, it's, I'm, I'm so passionate about helping as many people as I can really live what we call a heart centered life and utilizing sport, it's mainly sport is where a lot of people can relate to, to self mastery.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And so one of the most important things that I'm becoming more and more passionate about is something called the Inner Excellence Freedom Project.
Speaker C:And it's, it's is Jim Murphy's charity and I've sat down, I'm on the board of, of that and putting together programs to bring these lessons to as many people as possible, especially those who don't have the resources to afford this kind of coaching.
Speaker C:And so I have such a passion for this, this next generation, especially if with what we've seen since in this shift of how the mental health crisis that is existing and it's, it's getting worse.
Speaker C:When you, when we understand that a big part of the smartphone era and all that really feeds into these self protection, self absorption type of human experiences.
Speaker C:This is where I am very hopeful and excited of how we can start bringing a lot of the coaching through workshops, through individual coaching is what I do.
Speaker C:I do speeches and presentations.
Speaker C:But the expansion of what we truly want to do is find a way to bring this to as many people as possible so that people will be able to experience what it's like to start living more from a space not from the mind but from this deeper space that we describe as heart.
Speaker C:And so with Inner Excellence Freedom Project, having these opportunities to bring these concepts and for me to be able to simplify the science to a point where a 9 year old or a 12 year old or I mean I've got people in their 70s who are starting to learn this.
Speaker C:What's the makeup of this human experience of why when the mind and body are trapped in these kind of self, self serving, self protection kind of moments, why steers us away from living our Best possible life.
Speaker C:And so with what Jim's doing and right now he's still in Spain, he's actually all around the world and it's exciting.
Speaker C:He's on some amazing podcasts coming up.
Speaker C:And what we intend to do is to get clear on how do we help deliver these concepts, lessons, practices, how do we help organizations, either corporate level, all the way down to community based service organizations to just help people feel a little more free, help people experience their true essence of why they're here, well beyond their any self serving needs.
Speaker C:It's about contribution, service and giving to others.
Speaker C:So, so yeah, that's what I'm really focusing on, building with him together.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:And I think that's, that's why I think that, that golf ties so much of this together and is such a special sport.
Speaker A:Because, you know, what other, what other sport you mentioned having, you know, clients in their 70s.
Speaker A:You've got guys like our crew, you know, most of us in our 30s, 40s, 50s.
Speaker A:Yeah, but golf becomes such an outlet for so many people once they've passed that competitive age of whatever sport it could have been that they played even, even the professional level.
Speaker A:So many of those guys gravitate towards golf, which, which gives you a reason to want to get better at something.
Speaker A:And, and I think that that then allows you to start searching for things to help you get better, which then ultimately may lead you to a book like An Inner Excellence.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And yeah, you see a guy like AJ Brown reading this on the sidelines and you pick it up.
Speaker A:And I would venture to say that a lot of people saw that, like, oh my gosh, I'm going to get this book that A.J.
Speaker A:brown's reading.
Speaker A:And they open up and they're like, what, what is he talking about in here?
Speaker A:Heart centered thinking and selfless, actual, you know, like, and at first it's kind of like, but it opens this conversation of people like experiencing more of these philosophies, more of these techniques.
Speaker A:And then once you really take the time to, whether it be the book Inner Excellence or whatever book it is, golf is, is that gateway.
Speaker A:Same thing for fitness.
Speaker A:This is, we've said this for years at 18 strong, we use golf as kind of like the, the bait to reel our guys in to help them get stronger, get more fit so they can live a much more full life so they can play golf.
Speaker A:That's what brought them here.
Speaker A:But ultimately they realize, I mean, for instance, we have a couple guys in our crew, one that has lost over 100 pounds in the last year, one of my very good friends who, you know, for years has struggled with his weight and all of a sudden this year has just completely changed his mindset and now is down probably 50, 60 pounds or so.
Speaker A:But golf was the catalyst to all of this.
Speaker A:And I think that's what's so special about this.
Speaker A:And that's, that's really why I'm so passionate about this version of our show, is because it's not so much about dropping your handicap and your swing speed and your scores.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's about, you know, we like to say you and I talked about a lot, playing more golf and living more life.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And that's why, bringing people like you on, I think we just have a service to, to share your message with all of the people in our community, all the people in the world of golf, because we have access to some, some of the coolest people around.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like we've, you and I and, and all the people that we've worked with have these relationships with some of the greatest coaches in the world that not only are going to help your golf game, but are just going to help in life.
Speaker A:So first of all, just thank you for coming on and sharing all of this with us.
Speaker A:I hope that this gets people to go, first of all, learn more about you and where can people go find you first and foremost?
Speaker C:Yeah, the easiest way to find me is through my website.
Speaker C:I'm in the process of changing a lot of it, but in the meantime, drghaston.com d r g a s t o n.com you could check me out there.
Speaker C:I am reloading a bunch of my other pieces online so that I could, I could be easily found that way.
Speaker C:But then also just sending me a quick email to gastonrgaston.com is a quick and easy way to reach out with any questions or I do a lot of discovery calls for people who are interested in just learning a little bit more about, about self mastery and this whole journey and especially through golf.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:As you were just saying, the, this, this game of golf, the beauty of it is it is set up masterfully to help anybody stepping into this world of golf to truly discover.
Speaker C:So self discovery is, is a huge component of self mastery and through golf, you're going to discover a lot.
Speaker C:And so, so yeah, I'm really thankful you brought me on.
Speaker C:I love this conversation and I really look forward to having, having more of these exchanges.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:And for any of you listening, I know there's, there's probably a Lot of coaches listening, a lot of golf professionals that are at a club or if you belong to a club, and you guys bring in some sort of guest coaches, speakers.
Speaker A:We brought guests on in here a couple of weeks ago and we probably had, I think 40 people in here and everybody walked away like, oh my gosh, I wish we had another hour.
Speaker A:Or how do we, how do you know?
Speaker A:And obviously we're gonna, we're gonna bring you back and do this again and, and do it in several different ways, we think even do some clinics and things like that.
Speaker A:But, but by all means, reach out to Gaston or even send me an email jeffeenstrong.com and we'll get you guys hooked up if you want to bring them to your club.
Speaker A:All right, so the last piece that, that I'm gonna cap this, this chat with is, is something that we're calling the Golf Confessional.
Speaker A:And so I want you to tell us something and maybe give us a story, something that people don't know or wouldn't, wouldn't likely guess about you, that golf brings out in you, whatever that might be.
Speaker A:And if you have a story to go with it.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's interesting because I just alluded to the whole ongoing journey of self mastery and with a lot of the work I do, I help people really uncover some really important pieces of the story of their life.
Speaker C:And this goes, the whole story of somebody's life.
Speaker C:This, this goes into from zero to nine adolescents, teenage years, young adult years, and you start seeing some of the patterns that started way back when that you realize that, whoa, I'm still not free of those things.
Speaker C:So the type of self talk that I still continue to experience out there, my old self used to be very angered at short putts.
Speaker C:So short putts were my nemesis in the past.
Speaker C:And so when I examine the type of self talk that comes through when I have to go up and take a three footer or a two footer to make par, it's become a very enlightening experience for me personally to say, wow, okay.
Speaker C:I still am working with a lot of the self talk of overthinking or self doubt type of internal dialogue.
Speaker C:And so it's, it's an interesting thing.
Speaker C:So the next time we golf, when you see me going up to a two foot putt or a three foot putt, just observe what you might see in, in what I'm doing.
Speaker C:Because it's taken a lot of practice to, to go through my method, to get present, to go through my system and just go up there.
Speaker C:And if it goes in, it goes in.
Speaker C:If it doesn't, wasn't meant to.
Speaker C:And to not allow the negative self talk from my past to creep back in.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So, yeah, that's something that people don't quite see or would realize that somebody who's coached this so much to other people.
Speaker C:It's ongoing self mastery, and it's a beautiful thing.
Speaker A:It's actually, no offense.
Speaker A:It's actually refreshing to hear that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because we, we tend to look at somebody like you that works with the pros and works on all this and feel like you've got it all figured out.
Speaker A:Just like somebody might look at somebody in the fitness space and think they've got everything figured out.
Speaker A:They eat perfect, they exercise perfect, they don't have any pain, they don't.
Speaker A:They don't suffer any of these things.
Speaker A:And that's bullshit.
Speaker A:You know that.
Speaker A:That's bs.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We deal with the same things.
Speaker A:And so I, I really appreciate you sharing that because I think that gives people a lot of freedom to allow them to.
Speaker A:To give themselves a little bit of grace in that situation.
Speaker A:But next time I'm going to be looking to see if you have a smile on your face when you hit that button off.
Speaker C:I'm going to use that.
Speaker C:I love that.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:All right, buddy.
Speaker A:Hey, I. I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker A:You know that we're going to do this again, and I really look forward to.
Speaker A:To you coming in town in the near future, and it sounds like you're gonna be hanging out maybe with my buddy Pete Egazarian at some point.
Speaker A:Sounds like you guys have kind of connected a little bit to maybe get in touch in Chicago or something like that.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's gonna be great.
Speaker C:And thank you as always, for all that and all the faith you have in me and what you see of what I can do to help others.
Speaker C:And that's what it's all about, my man.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
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Speaker A:And remember, no matter who you are, Golf Don't Lie.
